Does this forum not send email notifications when a topic you create gets replies? I didn't get any.

Anyway...

My patch used Vanilla plus GEM and a few externals. I got all the updated versions of all the externals and Gem.
Gem is the one that's causing most of the trouble... or rather all of the trouble.

I get GL stack underflows, crashes when closing the gemwin, "someone sent a bogus pointer..." and other errors, none of which existed back when I created the patch. I have started reporting the bugs to Gem, but it's hard to isolate them, narrow them down and create minimal reproducing examples, as the patch is very, very complex, and the last time I touched it (and Pd) 12 years ago it was running seamlessly and very stable. I also tested on Windows and it's even worse: there it crashes when opening the gemwin.

My goal is not to use the old version of Pd and Gem to run the patch. That would be my very, very last resort. One one hand I suspected a bc-breaking change in how Pd handled some kinds of messages and wanted to test that, but I have already discarded that; on the other hand I wanted to see if I could run the patch without issues on the old versions, and from there either (a) start trying to narrow down the issues, always comparing between the two versions (because I don't remember how half of the stuff works, so if I reduce it to a minimal patch and still get issues, I'm never sure whether I'm introducing errors in the patch) or maybe (b) offer the Gem developers my whole patch (I cannot publish it but I would trust them) as a black box that certainly triggers a bunch of bugs even though it's very far from a minimal test case. I can still do that but it would be nice to confirm that the patch runs with no errors with the older version on a modern machine and OS.

In the end I was able to compile Pd 0.43-3 (pretty sure it would have been the same with 0.43-4) with the "new" build system by using CXXFLAGS="-std=c++98" for configure.

Now I have another issue:

Pd runs but only if I launch it from the correct folder. That is if I do from a terminal:

cd /path/to/pd-043-3/src
pd

it works (that is where the compiled binary was created; anyway everything holds true if I move it to ../bin/).
But if I do:

cd /path/to/pd-043-3
src/pd

then I get the error:

Error in startup script: couldn't read file "../tcl//pd-gui.tcl": no such file or directory

Not a huge deal, I can write a shell script that cds into the directory and runs pd, but it makes me think that something is not quite right.

I'm also trying and unable to compile the old version of Gem, but I'll open a separate thread about that.

Hi there,

I started dealing with GEM and implemented a very simple patch that simply plays back a video. When I run this patch with pd-gem the playback is all good. But with purr-data the playback stutters since the CPU load is too high. Please find attached screenshots of the patch and atop while running the patch with purr-data and pd-gem.

The pd version with purr-data and pd-gem is slightly different, but I assume that this is not the root cause. So, what is the problem with purr-data and how can I solve it?

Thank you in advance!
Andre

-- purr-data --
Purr-Data 2.19.3
Pd version 0.48.0
GEM version 0.94

-- pd-gem --
Pd version 0.52.1
GEM version 0.94

@godinpants said:

I goofed. I fell for it again and upgraded my OS and destroyed GEM. But this time I can't see any solution to getting it running again.

Anyone had luck hacking your way through getting GEM running on Big Sur?

Yeah, my multimedia exam is screwed for one student because of this too.

I'd asked on github and received this suggestion:

i don't really know, but she could try changing the windowing backend, by changing the gemdefaultwindow.pd abstraction in the Gem/-folder and replacing the [gemmacoswindow] (or whatever is there) to one of the other gem*window options installed on your system. (just look out for any externals (.pd_darwin,...) in the Gem/-folder that match the gem*window pattern).
possibly good choices are: [gemglfw3window], [gemglutwindow].

FWIW this is the nail in Gem's coffin for me. Too risky to try to keep it working for a room of 40-50 students.

hjh

FWIW, I don't think it needs to be a replacement for GEM, or pretend to make the interfaces similar to GEM. As noted at the top of the thread, GEM is outdated.

If an obstacle is converting Ofelia's pixel system into something like GEM's normalized coordinates, then... why not simply abandon the idea of normalized coordinates? Unless it's really necessary for practical use. If the only reason to normalize the coordinates was to make it "similar to GEM," I'd say, don't waste time on it.

FWIW, I'm not going to be able to tolerate GEM for another year. Like today -- it took me over two hours to figure out how to extract the alpha channel from pixes. (Like, how many years has GEM existed, and nobody thought it would be useful to have an object to transfer the alpha channel to the main channel of a grayscale pix? Or, if you don't need an object for it, this still seems to me a pretty basic use case... but of course hard to find in the documentation...)

I realize that a set of abstractions on top of Ofelia is not likely to be fully-featured -- but I could cobble together enough Lua to add abstractions myself where needed (and contribute them back), whereas trying to add objects to Gem is impractical (1, my C is not that good and 2, I could build in Linux but not Mac or Windows). Even a partial set of abstractions might be a starting point to get around the kinds of problems I'm facing now, where the existing objects don't quite do what I want and there's not a good way to add functionality.

Otherwise, for this course, I might not have a choice but to jump ship and go to jitter (which some of the students have already done). It pains me to think of switching away from FLOSS but where I am right now is simply not sustainable.

TL;DR Even if the current state is incomplete, would you mind sharing so I could have a look?

hjh

Ubuntu Studio 18.04 includes a package for "GEM: ver: 0.93.3 / GEM: compiled on 2018/02/01 at 21:58:19 UTC."

Current Gem is 0.94.

How do I update Gem on my system?

Deken's most recent Gem for Linux is from 2015 (seriously).

I searched for a PPA but I can't find one for this.

https://packages.debian.org/buster/gem -- compatible with Ubuntu or not?

(The immediate motivation is that, in the last 15 minutes or so, multiple Gem help patches caused Pure Data to crash. I suspect a conflict between new Pd 0.50 and old Gem 0.93...?)

hjh

@whale-av, here is a log running pd with -lib Gem -verbose.
tried both 32bit and 64bit pd 0.48-1...

tried ./Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried ./Gem.dll and failed
tried ./Gem/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried ./Gem/Gem.dll and failed
tried ./Gem.pd and failed
tried ./Gem.pat and failed
tried ./Gem/Gem.pd and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/Documents/Pd/externals/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/Documents/Pd/externals/Gem.dll and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/Documents/Pd/externals/Gem/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/Documents/Pd/externals/Gem/Gem.dll and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/Documents/Pd/externals/Gem.pd and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/Documents/Pd/externals/Gem.pat and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/Documents/Pd/externals/Gem/Gem.pd and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/AppData/Roaming/Pd/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/AppData/Roaming/Pd/Gem.dll and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/AppData/Roaming/Pd/Gem/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/AppData/Roaming/Pd/Gem/Gem.dll and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/AppData/Roaming/Pd/Gem.pd and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/AppData/Roaming/Pd/Gem.pat and failed
tried C:/Users/Raphael Isdant/AppData/Roaming/Pd/Gem/Gem.pd and failed
tried C:/Program Files/Common Files/Pd/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Program Files/Common Files/Pd/Gem.dll and failed
tried C:/Program Files/Common Files/Pd/Gem/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Program Files/Common Files/Pd/Gem/Gem.dll and failed
tried C:/Program Files/Common Files/Pd/Gem.pd and failed
tried C:/Program Files/Common Files/Pd/Gem.pat and failed
tried C:/Program Files/Common Files/Pd/Gem/Gem.pd and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/extra/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/extra/Gem.dll and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/extra/Gem/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/extra/Gem/Gem.dll and succeeded
D:\\pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit\\extra\\Gem\\Gem.dll: couldn't load
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/extra/Gem.pd and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/extra/Gem.pat and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/extra/Gem/Gem.pd and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/doc/5.reference/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/doc/5.reference/Gem.dll and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/doc/5.reference/Gem/Gem.m_i386 and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/doc/5.reference/Gem/Gem.dll and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/doc/5.reference/Gem.pd and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/doc/5.reference/Gem.pat and failed
tried D:/pd-0.48-1.windows.64bit/doc/5.reference/Gem/Gem.pd and failed
Gem: can't load library```

I realized recently that Gem has some very similar (and nice) shader examples, like a game of life, or a multi pass rendering (I learned that this is what I am doing with the effect chain in the video player).
And the timbreID library has some nice Gem patches for visualizing audio.
And Gem has of course a video player.

I ask myself now, because I do not want to reinvent the wheel, what are the advantages and disadvantages if I compare Gem to Ofelia?

I did some experiments with Gem some time ago but at a certain point I got stuck, whether because of my lacking knowledge or because the patch was getting slow.

So it could be possible to do exactly the same with both libraries?

Here I found a very old paper about Gem that states Gem is using openGL up to 1.2.
https://puredata.info/downloads/gem/documentation/manual/pub/zmoelnig2004gem.pdf
Has that changed? Or could that be a difference? I think the openGL versions that Ofelia can use depend only on the hardware.

What I like about ofelia so far is (in comparison to Gem):
To compile the patch as a standalone application.
To make nice interfaces.
(but I think those points are not openGL related...)
That it gives access to lua and open frameworks (which could make it easier to do complex graphics calculations / interfaces?).

Is anyone else in the position to compare those libraries, or has an opinion about them?

It depends if you're on Mac, Windows or Linux.
I'm on MacOS and I use Gem without Pd-extended. I just have to use Pd-Vanilla 32 bits (Pd-0.49-0-i386) and I've downloaded Gem via Help -> Find Externals -> Gem (in the research) and you choose the version from Deken Gem 0.93.3. Install it. Close Pure Data.
To load Gem when you're starting PureData : Open Pure data and go to Pd -> Preferences -> StartUp . In the StartUp Flags you tape Gem, 'Enter' and you juste have to close Pd and re-open and you can use Gem.
With cmd+B, you open the Help Browser and you have a Gem section with all the help you'll need to understand Gem (I've started two months ago).
Have Fun !

hello my fellows, been trying to compile GEM on osx myself, since most copies I get lacks some plugins (cant export imgs with pix_write(r) for instance).

I'm following this tutorial, but I'm on El Capitan
https://github.com/umlaeute/Gem/wiki/How-to-build-Gem-on-MacOSX-Mavericks

I'm getting the following error:

fribidi_log2vis
^
2 warnings and 1 error generated.
make[3]: *** [libUtils_la-GemString.lo] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1

before hand, I was also trying to compile gavl, so I could incunde gmerlin in gem's build, but I had a similar error and decided to go without it.

test -z "/usr/local/share/doc/gavl/apiref" || .././install-sh -c -d "/usr/local/share/doc/gavl/apiref"
/usr/bin/install -c -m 644 apiref/* /usr/local/share/doc/gavl/apiref
install: apiref/*: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [install-data-local] Error 71
make[1]: *** [install-am] Error 2
make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1

maybe theres something missing on my system?

@jeffgrips I have it running with vanilla in Windows7.... but it was hard...... and it's a long story....
I cannot see any reason that it would not work for widows10.
I have not found any other easier better solution.
(((SEE below though for the fact that the -lib needs to be declared...!
That could be your only problem? But I doubt it..!!! )))

I used the 64-bit GEM from here (0.94-test3.zip)..... https://github.com/avilleret/Gem/releases/

I unzipped it and put it in a folder (which I called "dot") on my desktop.

Because I am using many different versions of Pure Data I left it there, and I start Pd with a shortcut that also points to the GEM folder and loads it as a library (It has to be loaded at startup as a library...... and that could be why you don't have it working.... but probably not...).
This is the contents of the line "target" in the shortcut.......

"C:\Users\David\Desktop\Pd Vanilla\pd-0.47-1.msw\pd\bin\pd.exe" -lib C:\Users\David\Desktop\dot\0.94-test3/Gem -font-size 10 -font-face "Consolas"

Be careful with forward / backward slashes.

I am pretty sure that I tipped the contents of the "QT" folder out into the "0.94-test3 folder" where gem.dll is (from within the "QT" folder inside "0.94-test3").
If you find some .dlls are missing then post back with a list, and I can upload them....... but you might not have the correct C++ redistributables from Microsoft.

But if you want to start Pd normally by double-clicking a patch then you will need to declare the library in Pd.. edit....preferences.... startup......
If you have GEM in the extra folder you should only need to put "-lib Gem" where you see that I have put "-noautopatch".......

The gem abstractions could not be found though (the "parts of Gem... .like [pix_image] pix_video] [gemwin] etc. worked fine) I copied the contents of the Gem folder from "extended" into a folder on the desktop called "GemAbstr" and set a path to it in Pd preferences.
I removed gem.dll from that folder (no conflicts....!).
The abstractions now create, but the help files for embedded objects cannot be found (different "search" for embedded objects) so I have to open my "GemAbstr" folder and open them manually.

Everything works. All the patches from https://puredata.info/downloads/extended-view-toolkit create and run correctly. The camera on my computer even works (I had never had it working before).
And it works with Spout.

If you go this route then I wish you good luck.......

@zerino has confirmed that it can work with widows10........ https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/11450/pix-and-geometric-objects-not-being-loaded-in-pd-vanilla/7
........and resolved the "help" file problem.....

For the time being you are lucky that you are using Windows.
This solution is not available for other systems.
David.