Not really Off Topic but anyway...
Is it time for a real, neat, fully functioning Pure Data Wiki ?
It could be useful to have a place to collect patches or links to Pure Data examples, use them to illustrate different synthesis techniques, or applications of PD and so on. Some of the threads on this forum provide a good overview of subjects like reverb, granular synthesis or handling midi polyphony and it would be great to be able to summarize what's been worked out here and put it into a neat form somewhere.
Does this exist already somewhere? Would people be interested in contributing to something like this? Would it be useful?
Starting a Pure Data Wiki (Database/Examples Collection)
Not really Off Topic but anyway...
@beem The idea to have everything organized in a more advance fashion is good, but to be honest the cost of maintaining such a system is time consuming and needs a very active community. A lot of users who are new to PD just want quick access to hard work material that takes huge amount of time and knowledge to make, without spending time to learn it. So by making the process of getting various patches more easy will not encourage learning. This trend of having everything "at you fingernail" without work, reading or curiosity is like a modern fancy software interface that looks good but lacks serious software engineering principles. I also think that a serious backup of this forum is a smart move in order to keep years of hard work intact. The material of this forum contains years of hard work, devotion, passion, shared by very special people and it will be a great lost if we don't preserve it in a form or another.
It seems to me that part of the issue is how disconnected all the various PD communities are.
There's the mailing-list which has its regulars,
There's the Discord and the community there.
There's this site.
There's all the users who put their stuff on puredata.info.
There's the subreddit.
I didn't even know there was an IRC.
I haunt all of those places (except the IRC), and while I know there are others who also spend time in each, I also know that there are folks who really just stick to one or two.
I think there are more than enough PD users to make and maintain a wiki, but I don't think there are enough PD users in any one single place to actually achieve it. This strikes me as being one of the major things that holds PD back.
Take, for example, the Monome community over at lines. That community is small in terms of raw users, its centered around really esoteric and expensive gear, but its also absolutely thriving because they're not dispersed across 6 different platforms.
I don't know. I guess I wish the PD community had a more obvious center to it. And a wiki would work only if it were located at/near that center. But damn, I really want it. I think it's an amazing idea and it would solve some serious shortcomings.
@ingox thanks, I didn't know about that page.
I guess what I meant though is that compared to something like SuperCollider or Monome, PD seems to be fractured into many distinct communities. It's great that that page exists with all those resources, and it's also great to have so many different options for people's different preferences. But I sometimes wonder what could happen if, for example, everyone on the PD mailing list also hung out on this forum. When you have a community dispersed into so many smaller pieces, I think there are bad side effects. Like, for example, certain knowledge or sets of expertise that are well-represented in one area, like the Discord server, but not in another, like the IRC.
It seems like, especially if you're new to PD, that this can be a major hindrance.
@ingox So, how is it going to work?
Someone needs to work out a hierarchy and format with appropriate page titles.
Permissions will be needed to keep it under control.
I think it will need to be quite constrained or it will just become a parallel of this forum.
It will need to be kept very tight.
References at the bottom for useful follow-up like in Wikepedia, but restricted concise information for each page or it will run out of control.
Any links will have to lead to a concise sensible page too......... not a discussion.
I would suggest starting with all known Pd objects, especially as the documentation is already mostly done in their help files.... that currently you only get to see once you have created the object....... that you might not know exists.
So maybe the same hierarchy as Pd..... math, audio, audio math, gui, ..... as in help-intro.pd... ?
But the elephant in the room is the tilde~. A wiki which doesn't use it as a Boolean operator?
I'm studying PD from about 1 month. I'm projecting a part of my new live setup with PD, therefore I think i will stay here for a long time
I was just thinking how could be useful to have a wiki for pure data, so I'm pleasantly surprised to find this thread!
I must say that, to find information, I have found myself confused several times with the various platforms of Pure Data!
So I think a wiki can be a great connector and glue.
Each person will be able to contribute, and I believe that a structure of this kind has a great potential.
For example, in these days I felt the need to have a manual for the entire external librarys, to be able to easily browse what's inside all that. Currently it seems to me that there is none of this on the web. Also here, the wiki could be very powerful (for a section dedicated to externals/deken, I would be happy to work on it).
I think that initially it is good to leave registrations open to contribute, to encourage people to help (but certainly in the future, you can always change). I have seen many wikis work fine with open registrations.
So, does anyone have an idea for a server that we could use and try to start?
I believe this pandemic period could be perfect for starting this project!
p.s. there are other PD communities not mentioned by @lordgreekfolder , like Facebook (really big) and Telegram.
Thanks for all the replies to this. It's taken me a while to understand the various responses I got to this idea but it's gradually become a bit clearer. It seems that there are actually several possible Pd wikis that could be made or combined:
A wiki of Pd objects - a sort of in-depth illustrated help with tips and examples for every object and external
A wiki of Pd methods and applications - how to use Pd; e.g. handling midi, random functions, FFT, etc
A wiki of Pd resources, links, and examples - a guide to what is available online, Pd tutorials, instruments - a kind of collective annotated bookmarks collection
The last one is what I personally had in mind initially and I have my own version here:
which anyone is welcome to join in on. It's currently a bit of a mess and not sorted into any real system. I understand from certain replies that some people don't think it's a good idea to make access to other people's work too easy but I think the more fun you have with Pd, without having to learn everything the hard way, the better.
@beem I love it. This is amazing! I have so many scattered bookmarks and whatnot that I'm going to sift through and add to this doc.
Thank for this.
Also, just to clarify my earlier comments: I'd like to make it clear that I love this idea completely, and if anything I said was interpreted to mean that this is a bad idea, then I apologize for that. The main thrust of my earlier comments was really to ponder what I see as the fragmented state of PD. My reasoning was this: a stronger community would lead to a stronger collaborative effort at wiki-building.
And also, a stronger community would lead to an even stronger community. This is not the thread for that conversation, though.
@beem It's a very good start and already will "PD help" a lot of people.
You won't be able you use hyperlinks like a true wiki until you have control of the content though.
And that will need content storage in the wiki...... so permission to copy...... or content creation..... and a faster host.
But already it will let us use hyperinks in the forum and elsewhere to give people help with for example Pd Granular synthesis without having to scrape for links.
You should probably add the Floss manual even though it is very "extended" still.
In fact it should have a whole section on missing libraries and how to make old patches work in Vanilla...... with hyperlinks back to this forum and others.
Another sample from the work-in-progress ...
I thought it would be worth having a category for these more self-contained collections
Modular Systems in Pd
Kraken - Virtual Guitar Effects Pedal Board
Open toolkit for hardware and software interactive art-making systems
Pd Modular Synthesizer
A previous incarnation of Automatonism
any others that should be in there?
Here is the beginning of a bookmark collection and general Pd resource in wiki form -
It's not very logical yet (some doubling up and vague categories) and the formatting is still a bit up in the air but it is a 'work in progress'. Anyone who can see some potential in it and wants to contribute can join wikidot and become an editor.
@beem Just joined wikidot in the hope of helping out if I can. Is there anything I can do to help add to this? Seems like a really great resource that should be central to people encountering PD at all stages, let me know if there's anything I can do.
@whale-av Hiya, that's my wiki. The ordering and selection of the links is fairly haphazard as I'm not actively using Pd currently and haven't taken the time to order all the links into a more appropriate set of subheadings. I'm a big proponent of putting everything on one page (until a page gets incredibly long, though there are still exceptions to this rule on my wiki). I'll eventually get around to nicking the links from any other wiki I find Happy for the links to be nabbed from my wiki and used elsewhere.