@lacuna said:

Don't know about phasor's right inlet, but I guess for more precision on the outside of objects we'd have to use 'Pd double precision'.

Yes, I confirmed that my test patch runs without issue under Pd64. Unfortunately, my real patch doesn't

Also remember @ddw_music different approach than [phasor~]:

I think that "different approach" is a different issue--I'm not multipying its output to index into a large table. I'm just using it as an oscillator/LFO. Are you suggesting that there's a way to build an oscillator with [rpole~] that is as frequency-accurate as [phasor~] but without the single vs double precision issue?

On one sample late: It is [snapshot~] who is early, not [phasor~]:
...
I would call this a bug of [snapshot~] !%§$*(

I don't understand your conclusion about the timing of [snapshot~]. Here's how I would analyze your demonstration patch: the top bang is processed in-between audio blocks. Therefore, [tabplay~] and [fexpr~] run in the following audio block. [snapshot~] is different though, because it's a bridge between control rate and audio rate--like bang, it also runs between audio blocks. Therefore, the best it can do (without having to predict the future) is to return the last sample of the previous audio block. So it's not surprising for [fexpr~] to have to reach back into the previous audio block to get the same value as [snapshot~]. If [snapshot~] were to return the first sample of the following audio block, it couldn't pass that value to control rate code until that audio block's processing is complete. Do you see my point?

Also, I'm not saying [phasor~] is early, I'm just saying its right inlet isn't a mechanism for restoring its state. It's just for what the documentation says it's for: to reset its phase to a given value.

@lacuna said:

click bang [o] (GUI always on block-boundary) > [spigot] opens > [bang~] bangs > [spigot] closes > [vline~] starts (still on same block-boundary).

Yes, this is how I was hoping it would work, but it's not always the case that [bang~] bangs after the spigot is open within the same control block. It appears to bang afterward if there is a direct bang from a GUI element, but bangs before if the bang came from a delay. (Edit: I'm going to start a new topic on this, I don't see why this should be true)
bang~ runs last.pd
bang~ runs first.pd
If it runs before, then we are really waiting until it bangs at the end of the next audio block. (BTW, you can modify the number of blocks of delay and see the numbers change as you'd expect)

You use [rpole~ 1] as sample-counter, right? But [snapshot~] only snapshots on block-boundaries.

Yes, but all I'm concluding from that is that the message is available in the control block before the audio block that contains its actual time. The fact that so many Pd objects ignore the fractional block of time remaining suggests to me that it could be possible to truncate that fractional block of time in the message in order to make objects like vline~ start at the beginning of the audio block, like sig~.

So is it correct that you want to move the start of vline~ 'backward' ? To the start of the block?

Your diagram annotation is correct, but "want" is a strong word . Let's just say I'm curious if it's possible. Right now, I'm delaying things like [sig~] to match [vline~] by inserting [vline~] just before them. I could have used any of our 3 quantizers to align the first [vline~] ramp with the block following the block that contains the fractional block timed message, but then I would have had to also delay my [sig~] processing a block as @seb-harmonik-ar confirmed.

The last two slides in that PP deck you linked to shows what I mean. Objects like [vline~] implement the ideal, but I'm wondering how to make it behave more like the last slide. See how the message's timing is labeled "t0+16"? Wouldn't it be possible just to zero out the "16" part?

@jameslo For me it is difficult to understand. Maybe I am missing the whole point and all I say is off topic.

First of all, I honestly don't understand why your left bang works

click bang [o] (GUI always on block-boundary) > [spigot] opens > [bang~] bangs > [spigot] closes > [vline~] starts (still on same block-boundary).

Similarly, in my first response to you, you can see in the snapshots that the bang from [delay 1.5 64 samp] is being processed during Ctrl 1, 32 samples before its real timing.

This I don't understand.
You use [rpole~ 1] as sample-counter, right? But [snapshot~] only snapshots on block-boundaries. (That's why there is [vsnapshot~], but that was buggy, when I last tried it.) [snapshot~] shows 64 samples, one whole block.
If you snapshot later, you see [del 1.5 64] outputs bang after 96 samples:

([sig~] also updates its output only on block-boundaries, not within the block.)

@seb-harmonik-ar s [pip~] could be done with [bang~] and [timer], to measure the time that has passed into the block.
Or for signalrate~ output~ with [rpole~ 1], to measure the samples past into the block.

you don't need to predict the future to make it one block earlier

So is it correct that you want to move the start of vline~ 'backward' ? To the start of the block? To the start of that block where [del] outputs later on a message to [vline~]?
Clicking [o] bang at ctrl 0 > [del 1] outputs after 1 ms, where audio 0 is happening > [vline~] should have started before, at the beginning of audio 0 ?
Is this what you want?

Here is a paper where message- vs signal-domain and scheduleing are graphed. It is in German, maybe you can use a translator and the time-graphs on the last pages are english / self-explanatory. And you problably already know all of this.
https://iaem.at/kurse/ss19/iaa/pdscheduler.pdf/view

Hi, I'm trying to use pd-else with libpd on ios.

I'm makeing pd-else for PLATFORM=x86-64-apple-ios, copying over the output (objectsdir) to my bundle resources, building libpd with ADDITIONAL_LDFLAGS=-ldl, adding with the output to search path PdBase.add(toSearchPath: Bundle.main.resourcePath)

When I'm trying to open a patch which uses pd-else

Some attempts to find files are successful:

2024-04-16 21:14:27.771002+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.pd and succeeded
2024-04-16 21:14:27.771098+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.pd and succeeded

But most fails

2024-04-16 21:14:27.751266+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.751597+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.751739+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.darwin-fat-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.751876+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.darwin-fat-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.752090+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.d_amd64 and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.752374+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.d_fat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.752664+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.pd_darwin and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.752902+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~/out~.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.753208+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~/out~.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.753470+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~/out~.darwin-fat-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.770480+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~/out~.darwin-fat-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.770636+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~/out~.d_amd64 and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.770790+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~/out~.d_fat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.770900+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~/out~.pd_darwin and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.771002+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.pd and succeeded

2024-04-16 21:14:27.771098+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/out~.pd and succeeded

2024-04-16 21:14:27.771192+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.771485+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.771726+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-fat-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.771987+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-fat-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.772286+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.d_amd64 and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.772645+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.d_fat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.773142+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.pd_darwin and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.773783+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.774359+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.774935+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-fat-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.775535+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-fat-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.776348+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.d_amd64 and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.776992+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.d_fat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.777360+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.pd_darwin and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.777810+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.pd and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.778584+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.pat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.779417+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/else/lb.pd and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.780202+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.781051+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.781778+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-fat-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.782005+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-fat-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.782436+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.d_amd64 and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.782651+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.d_fat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.788387+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.pd_darwin and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.788947+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.789356+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.789586+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-fat-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.789874+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-fat-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.790175+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.d_amd64 and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.790421+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.d_fat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.790769+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.pd_darwin and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.791501+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.pd and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.792396+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.pat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.793014+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/else/lb.pd and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.793494+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.795343+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.795655+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-fat-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.796345+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.darwin-fat-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.797063+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.d_amd64 and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.797921+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.d_fat and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.798883+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb.pd_darwin and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.802219+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-amd64-32.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.802831+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(4): tried /Users/anvlkv/Library/Developer/CoreSimulator/Devices/19822801-5565-453D-802D-5533CB03027B/data/Containers/Bundle/Application/B61B55C5-FEE9-4A99-964E-D45932D58CE1/YoganOme.app/else/else/lb/lb.darwin-amd64-0.so and failed

2024-04-16 21:14:27.803686+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: verbose(0): else/lb

2024-04-16 21:14:27.804195+0300 YoganOme[72363:460962] Pd: error: ... couldn't create

And indeed there're no such files in the output, there're some with _darwin but not with specific architecture. Also there's no else/else subdirectory

Could anyone give a hint?

@kyro By non-linear I was referring to things like [pow~] getting stuck in the feedback loop, not a correct terminology but one I fall back on with synths because it was a common term in the synth diy community 20 years ago to refer to anything that is not the normal distortion/filtering type stuff in a filters feedback loop.

@manuels The magic of the moog (as in minimoog) is primarily in the output amp which affects the entire filter and is why the ARP version sounds so different, they 'fixed' it and lost the characteristic flavor of the mini's filter. The output amp on the mini's filter does not have anywhere high enough of an impedance to deal with the ladder which drags down frequency response and distorts things, feedback loop comes off output amp so nothing in the filter is untouched by the output amps flaws and it is more the heart of the filter than the ladder. Later Moog ladders are closer to the ARP version, output amp has a high enough impedance and we loose most of the mini's character but we get a decent response in the upper registers in trade.

Most of the classic VCFs are just cascaded 6db filters with a feedback loop for resonance and is my standard, the various 'proper' filters created in the digital world are lacking in many ways to my ears. The cascaded nature of many circuits in the analog world is part of what the digital world is missing, in a 4 pole filter that means we at least have input amp, 4 filter stages, output stage and feedback each giving their own distrotion and frequency characteristic. The filter stages we try and balance and get them to cancel out any quirks to work together but they still have an individual character and input, output and feedback have a very strong character which gives us a rather dynamic result when everything is combined.

And since analog feedback is basically delayless (which in digital land is of course impossibe)

Check my thread on feedback which actually came about because of trying to get a decent filter executed in pd, getting closer.

@Pandas As above..... Pd has an input > output delay equal to its block size.
Put something in and it will output 64 samples later.
But the soundcard cannot convert that to analogue instantly... so we add a buffer that gives it time to process the audio before the next block arrives.... MOTU 2-3ms with ASIO... On board soundcard usually 30-80ms.
I see you posted elsewhere on the forum..... https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/14495/sync-to-external-daw-midi-clock-audio-latency
I don't know those programs and maybe someone else will help.
Sending the audio samples to another program through a port will still not be instantaneous... but should be close unless you are listening to it at the same time.... but even media players will buffer at least 512 samples before they play a stream.

Does QSynth have compensation settings to delay the midi and attempt to match the audio timing?
What is your OS?
As you are communicating with software rather than a DAC you could try reducing the Delay (mSecs) in Pd media settings,,,,,, down to 3, then 2, then 1.. 0 probably not but you never know.... basically until it hangs and then go back to the last setting that worked.
Apply but don't save the settings until you are done.... or Pd might not start or might not let you change them again while it is "stuck" even if you restart it.
There is a fix for that..... I will upload it if that happens..

Running Pd at 96kHz audio rate should I think reduce the 64 sample (Pd internal) block delay.... you could try that too...... I think it should output in half the 48kHz time.

And try this..... it might help....... depends what you are wanting to achieve...... https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/13125/batch-processing-audio-faster-than-realtime
David.

@jameslo said:

I'd still like to know if spaces are legal and possible with [oscformat] though.

I'm a bit surprised to see this, but in fact, according to the OSC spec 1.0, spaces are not allowed in OSC command paths.

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/groups/osc/spec-1_0.html#osc-address-spaces-and-osc-addresses

Each OSC Method and each OSC Container other than the root of the tree has a symbolic name, an ASCII string consiting of printable characters other than the following:

-character-	-name-	-ASCII code (decimal)-
’ ’	space	32
#	number sign	35
*	asterisk	42
,	comma	44
/	forward slash	47
?	question mark	63
[	open bracket	91
]	close bracket	93
{	open curly brace	123
}	close curly brace	125

So Pd has no obligation to support spaces here.

I suppose it depends on the software's OSC handler. SuperCollider doesn't complain (contrary to the OSC spec):

n = NetAddr.localAddr;  // send to myself

o = OSCFunc({ |msg|
    msg.postln;
    o.free;
}, '/test space');

n.sendMsg('/test space', 1);

prints: [ /test space, 1 ]

I did some other tests:

• "symbol patch 1" --> [list fromsymbol]: escape char 92 is not in the ASCII list.
• list "112 97 116 99 104 32 49" --> [list tosymbol]: resulting symbol prints with a backslash. I don't know if the backslash is stored internally, or if it's inserted only for the printed output. A quick look at the source code in x_list.c suggests that the backslash is not stored internally.
• list "112 97 116 99 104 32 49" --> [list tosymbol] --> [list prepend set] --> [list trim] --> [oscformat]: The printed bytes from oscformat do include char 92. But I couldn't see in the source code where the space is being escaped. (This long way around to build the "set" message is to be certain that there's no backslash in my input -- the backslash must be generated internally somewhere..)

So [oscformat] seems to be where the problem is happening -- but the OSC spec makes no promises that spaces will work, so there wouldn't be any justification to log a bug.

hjh

The amount of input-->output latency comes from the soundcard driver settings, specifically, the hardware buffer size.

"Where does latency come from" is this:

The audio card driver processes blocks of audio. (If it didn't process blocks of audio, then it would have to call into audio apps once per sample. There is no general purpose computer that can handle 40000+ interrupts per second with reliable timing. The only choice is to clump the samples into blocks so that you can do e.g. a few dozen or hundred interrupts per second.)

Audio apps can't start processing a block of input until the entire block is received. Obviously this is at the end of the block's time window. You can't provide audio samples at the beginning of a block for audio which hasn't happened yet.

You can't hear a block of output until it's processed and sent to the driver.

| --- block 1 --- | --- block 2 --- |
| input.......... |                 |
|                \|                 |
|                 \_output......... |

This is true for all audio apps: it isn't a Pd problem. Also Pd's block size cannot reduce latency below the soundcard's latency.

You can't completely get rid of latency, but with system tuning, you can get the hardware buffer down to 5 or 6 ms (sometimes even 2 or 3), which is a/ good enough and b/ as good as it's going to get, on current computers.

hjh

@eulphean said:

I'm using pure data on a raspberry pi 3+ for a project. I have bluetooth configured properly on it. I can send regular audio to bluetooth speaker connected, but the preferences -> audio in PureData doesn't show the bluetooth speaker. It only shows internal audio card or if I have a USB audio card, that shows too. But no bluetooth device.

How do I configure that? Do I need to use jack or something to route audio to bluetooth for Pd?

My experience with Bluetooth audio in Linux has been:

• JACK has zero tolerance for the audio driver ever being late -- expect crashes or system lockups if you try to route audio from JACK to Bluetooth. That is, just don't.

• PulseAudio's support for BT audio is pretty good -- the "regular audio" that you spoke of. Audio production apps typically bypass PulseAudio, in which case BT audio may simply not be supported for them. That is, I expect you'd hit the same problem with SuperCollider, Audacity, Ardour, VCV Rack etc etc etc.

I'm not aware of a solution... That's not to say that there absolutely isn't one, but the Linux audio space is not unified as it is in Mac so audio device support may not be universal.

hjh

Hello!

I have just released in github and deken the abstraction pack 'planifolia' (v.0.1).

Planifolia (from the second name of the orchid 'Vanilla planifolia') is a set of Pure Data abstractions designed to work without any compiled externals.

The abstractions implement a series of useful operations like arbitrary unary and binary operations in lists and arrays, quicksort, logical operators to check equality of arbitrary datatypes, easy OSC formatting/routing, etc. It also comes with toggle-based matrix GUI (designed to work be compatible with iemmatrix objects) and a matrix based step sequencer with some non usual features (independent tempo, beat and duration patterns, col/row/colrow modes, nice colors, etc).

Some bugs may still be there...

abstractions

Brazilian percussion samples were gently provided by Chico Correa youtube: /c/ChicoCorrea