I didn't look at that patch, all I am saying is that I think it's important to have audio signals triggering the object. If you just want to use MIDI, you don;t really need it, but my library is fully sample rate accurate, like a modular environment. I wouldn't know how to do that with Vanilla, seems impossible or dreadfully hard/crazy with all my features.

The [slop~] object is sample rate accurate though.

@JuanMadrid said:

And you are right, to develope the ADSR with vline was complicated foir me. I spent several hours,

and for me it's important that the gate value is an audio signal and that simply can't be done with [vline~]. A proper envelope should also be able to be retrigerred while the gate is on. When I added yet even more features like I did, it simply gets impossible to be done with Vanilla.

it was historically immediate release by default, but in that particular version I was trying to accommodate more features and kinda screwed up... and now it'll be back immediate release with yet more features, so I was able to find a way to accommodate things.

It's hard to add features without breaking things.

By the way. I don't think [vline~] can be considered an envelope generator at all... you can do it, but it's a lot of hassle and it's only linear and very limited. For you to be able to deal with exponential curves and all the things I provide in my envelope generator is just virtually impossible with vanilla.

of course [else/adsr~] is much more powerful and offers more exponential curves. I find the one pole filter solution not that great, but I haven't bothered on trying to implement something like that in Vanilla

Note that the new stuff I pointed above are already part of the experimental/nightly builds of PlugData.

As for designing envelopes, I have the "Live Electronics Tutorial", an extensive tutorial and all things ELSE and Pd, which is also distributed as part of the PlugData documentation. I have an example on how to build exponential envelopes over there, see

here's a screenshot you'll find in chapter 17

I also have added something like this to the help file of [slop~]

this is what I have for the upcoming version, a more versatile and sophisticated time management system

I'm really sorry that I end up changing things a bit, but as long as PlugData is still at an experimental 0.x.x version I am doing this in favor of improving and enhancing the objects. When PlugData 1.0 is finally out (and I can't wait for Tim to do that), I made a pact with the devils that I should just stick to whatever bad decisions I had at the time and let it go...

What version of PlugData do you have?

If you have the last stable version 0.9.3 this is what you have and shows you how to set the envelope for immediate release or not

A new version of ELSE and plugdata is already up as part of an experimental 0.9.4 PlugData release and things changed a bit.

So there's nothing really wrong with the object, you just didn't check the help file carefully

I'm working on this one https://github.com/porres/pd-else/blob/master/Abstractions/Control/lsystem.pd

how would it be for audio?

@Dizzy-Dizzy said:

I downloaded the latest else library and I don't think the external has been updated yet for pi/linux?

nope, not yet... but you can get it from github actions

a real update might come in a month or so

@Obineg said:

try to implement something simple and common such as a tremolo or vibrato to the paf~ external using data rate and you´ll see what i mean.

my paf~ external has 3 signal inputs for that matter

there's also [else/canvas.name] and [else/canvas.setname]

@raynovich said:

I guess it is just the way it is

how about filing a report for a feature request?

Just added this parameter. Unfortunately motex is not available for me on apple silicon...

nice, thanks, I will add this functionality to else/rand.u now

@jameslo said:

I've always liked motex/shuffle because it allows you to specify how soon a repetition can occur when you generate a new permutation. See the third argument

can you better explain how this works?

[else/rand.hist] allows an unrepeated sequence but also allows a bigger sequence with 2 or more equal repetitions of each item.

But else also offers [rand.u] for a one shot unrepeated sequence

please open an issue on github

https://github.com/porres/pd-else/

Celebrating the 10th anniversary (yikes, a whole decade of my repository today (February 21st 2026), I have wrapped an update for Cyclone. Check https://github.com/porres/pd-cyclone/releases/tag/cyclone_0.9.4 and find binaries in deken for mac/linux/windows and raspberry pi. And please let me know if you have any problems with these binaries!

Last year I made a minor update (0.9.3) a couple of months after the 0.9.2 release, but I never formalized a release update with binaries into deken and an announcement. Let's just skip that, but here's the changelog for 0.9.3 while we're at it:

• Fixed bug in [unmerge] where it wouldn't deal well with mixed floats and symbols in a list
• Fixed crash and resize bug in [zl.group]/[zl.stream]

This one made it into the PlugData 0.9.2 release recently, by the way.

I was actually hoping I'd have a 1.0 right now to celebrate my 10 years involved with Cyclone, but I failed miserably. The plan is to release that along with PlugData 1.0 as well, whenever that happens (some updates to [mtr] is what's missing for me to call it 1.0.0 already, by the way).

So anyway, here's 0.9.4!

Many cosmetic changes in this one, which I'm kinda proud of. I did finally add a menu entry so people can disable the object browser plugin, while I also improved it to include browsing in more nesting level depth.

So, if you think my beautiful and hard work designing a nice plug-in browser is not welcome, you can go to Preferences=>Cyclone-Browser-plugin and disable it.

Other more cosmetic changes are that I made some updates to the text editing window of objects like [coll]. One of the things is that it now uses Pd's "theme" colors in it (so Pd >= 0.56 is needed)! I also made some other changes like being able to use CTRL+S to save and CTRL+W to close the window. Also, typing and editing it on the window now marks the patch as dirty if you have the "@embed" flag enabled (same is true for [table]).

There are some other bug fixes, and here's a full changelog if you're curious about all the details.

CHANGELOG:

• We now have a preferences menu to disable the browser plugin! See Preferences => Cyclone-Browser-plugin. If you always hated this, disable it and save the setting. The browsing plugin is now also better organized with more nesting levels.
• [prob] removed the functionality for viewing the data because the MAX original doesn't have it and it makes no sense, cause we can't edit it and save it and you can already see the data with "dump" (which prints on the terminal window). When embedding, now we also have a dirty flag when setting data, just like [cyclone/coll] and [cyclone/table] (even though the MAX original doesn't do it).
• Text Editing Window Improvements: colors now adapt to Pd's theme (so >= 0.56 is needed) and font size also adapts to patch's font size. Allow ctrl+s to save and ctrl+w to close the window. This affects [cyclone/seq], [cyclone/coll], [cyclone/table] and [cyclone]/[capture~] (again, [cyclone/prob] doesn't have it anymore). Also make manually editing the window and saving it sets the dirty flag on the patch for [coll] and [table] (and not only with changes via messages as before).
• [coll]/[table] improved dirty management as it wouldn't mark dirty if the owning canvas wasn't visible (which was a stupid hack to not mark it as dirty when loading the patch).
• [coll] now forces a correct order of args and deals with 0/1-length list messages.
• [table] fixed trying to open the name argument as if it was a file. Now resizing updates the editing window if it is opened.
• Improved [cross~], it is now a 4th order filter (even though Max claims theirs is a 3rd order filter). The last one didn't sound good when adding the lowpass and highpass output.
• [scope~] improved resizing handle mechanism
• [comment] fixed "mouse release bug" annoying error and initialization with a zoomed patch.
• Fixed many typos in the docs.
• Improved github actions and added Raspberry Pi binaries
• Fixed CMake build for compiling a single binary

Cheers
Alexandre Torres Porres

else object is more advanced as it allows MC connections, see [else/mtx.mc~] (and [else/mtx~] as well)

@ddw_music said:

Pd does spit this information out of soundfiler at the moment of loading, but if you didn't retain those values at that time, then they're gone.

by the way, the [else/sample~] object loads any sound file into internal buffers (with any number of channels). It does like [soundfiler] and spits it out right away, but you can query it any time with the "info" message.

It's also important to say that PlugData comes with "all batteries" included, with the ELSE library for example.

I don't mind Vanilla's interface too much, but that's cause it looks on on the mac. It's definitely dreadful in Windows/Linux though. But what gets me the most is how it lacks some important stuff to make music. Max is not that all too complete I'd say as well. SuperCollider has a nice built in collection of tools though.

@_ish said:

extracting BPM from a soundfiler

you can use [else/beat~] for beat detection of live input by the way