delay (msec) is to create the total buffer size. Its important for round trip latency where PD is looping the input to the output - the delay (msec) gets added with the block size (which for compatibility with other patches just keep at 64)

Usually JUCE based programs just give you a "block" of audio, PD is more under the hood about the DSP, the 64 block is a ring buffer that the main patch is at (which is why you have to subpatch to reblock) and the delay msec is padding for the CPU.

Normally you only run into it when you have to up the amount with the sine playing in 'Media, test audio and midi' when you first install PD until it stops sounding scratchy

but also theres another patch in the help browser under 7.stuff/tools/latency you can loop back the output of your audio to the in and play around with lowering it. Either with a loopback function on a dac, or like a wire plugged from out ot line or just have the mic and speakers setup where they could cause feedback if turned up too loud. Tests on the internet for mostly vintage DACS doing round trip latency were actually done in PD.

playing around with it I found Intel macs can go down to 3, and prosumer asio (like an old external edirol dac) can go down to the lowest, 2. Its up to the low level driver to give you the real round trip latency.

usually as long as you can get the sine wave to play in Media.. test audio and midi you are good. Its really only for processing audio in with minimal audible latency - super small delays go off the rails the second you really hit the CPU with polyphony, delay lines, small block sizes.

For a while I had it at as low as it was without being scratchy, but as I got into more complicated (and bloated) synth designs I just kept mine at 50 because when it was having problems more latency than that never helped but less could cause stutters/scratchy sounds.

Linux and Windows are usually set by default to 50 or 100 tho I dont have a problem above 23, offhand I think intel macs were set to 5 or 10. the new arm macs can run into a problem where the old default was too small and should have it higher as well. So the real winners were old intel macs.

use callbacks is only for some older audio drivers in linux

@porres

Been using PD for over 10 years (maybe 15), went over to PD Extended while it lasted, then to L2Ork which I seem to remember had issues for me. Anyway Purr Data has been good, ability to zoom into a large patch, graphics is finer and sharp, clean not distracting, multiple chord connection etc etc, it works great, and is actively being developed.

But adc~ is not now working on my new Mac, otherwise everything else seems to work.

I check in PD Vanilla 0.55-2, and adc~ works (on my new M4 Mac), so it's definitely a Purr Data issue (with newer Macs / OS) - maybe as it's based on PD 0.48.

I had an issue with Purr Data many years ago, with wrap~, and somehow I contacted the developers of Purr Data directly, and they sorted it out in the next release. Can't remember how I did that, but will try to connect them now.

Ok in 'desperation' I thought I'll look back into PD-L2Ork, got the latest Version 20241224 (rev.8b297e12) for Mac Silicon here...

https://github.com/pd-l2ork/pd-l2ork/releases

After several crashes trying to set my audio interface and channel amounts in Edit>Settings, it now works, all is good, looks exactly like Purr Data, ~adc works, as do all my involved patches.

So actually you did provide the solution!

Now I wonder why Purr Data exists alongside L2Ork, as to me they look and act the same?

I have been using Pd with macOS 13 on my M1 MacBook Pro for a while without any issues, but I think my employer will likely be forcing me to "upgrade" to macOS 15 soon.

I seem to remember there being some issues with a macOS update at some point relatively recently, though this was maybe about macOS 14...I just wanted to ask very broadly whether anyone has had any issues with Pd on macOS 15?

@zoebreed

assuming you are running PD on linux and not doing something with libpd like the bela (although the bela forum has a great thread about compiling externals)..

so because cyclone is a compiled external (opposed to a vanilla external that is an abstraction made up of objects just using pd vanilla) it will only work on the correct OS and CPU

for the OS
mac is darwin .d_
windows is msw .m_
linux is .l_
haiku is?
bsd is?

CPU/ARCH is
_fat = a mac thing - both types of mac (now adays the M1,2,3 and Intel, historically it was for PPC and Intel or 32bit and 64bit intel)
_amd64 = intel/amd/ (regular desktop or laptops)
_arm
_arm64 _aarch64
_riscv someday haha

but ARM is confusing because the raspi3 and earlier were 32bit only but raspi4 can be 32 or 64bit - so 32 or 64 depends on the OS and version of Pure Data..

• (assuming) Linux and ARM which can be called aarch64 / arm7 / arm64 / or arm for 32bit

you can cover your bases tho and stick them all together - compiled externals (if named correctly as we will see) can be together in the same folder so it will run on a mac, or windows, or linux laptop and then on a rasberry pi or jetson nano - pure data does a really good job of looking for the right one

but another tricky thing is where to put them - the easiest way to approach this is to put the compiled externals and their help in the same folder as your patch. you should also be able to put them in a named folder inside the patch /cyclone and call the externals with that folder first [cyclone/>~]

if you download the .dek file at the bottom here - its actually a zip ..

https://deken.puredata.info/info?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpuredata.info%2FMembers%2Fporres%2Fsoftware%2Fcyclone%2F0.7-0%2Fcyclone[v0.7-0](Darwin-amd64-32)(Darwin-arm64-32)(Linux-amd64-32)(Linux-arm64-32)(Linux-armv6-32)(Windows-amd64-32).dek

the easiest thing would be to put all these in the same folder as your patch or just put the ones for the OS and CPU/ARCH you are using

ps if you are just using the [>~ ] signal comparason objects you can use heavylib [>~] = [gt~] .. vanilla abstractions are objectsNamed.pd you call [objectsNamed] and have the same deal with foldering - easiest to keep them in the root of your patch. https://github.com/Wasted-Audio/heavylib

@alexandros

thanks for the suggestion! I"ve never compiled anything before, but I gave it a shot...

I'm getting this error in PD after loading the 3 compiled objects (6 files: grambidec.pd_darwin, grambidec.pd_darwin.o, grambiman.pd_darwin, grambiman.pd_darwin.o, grambipan.pd_darwin, grambipan.pd_darwin.o):

 load_object: Symbol "grambiman_setup" not found in "/Users/brianlindgren/Documents/Pd/externals/grambiman.pd_darwin"

Also make is generating a bunch of warnings:

++++ info: using Makefile.pdlibbuilder version 0.7.0
++++ info: using Pd API /Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/src/m_pd.h
++++ info: making target all in lib grambidec~
++++ info: making grambidec.pd_darwin.o in lib grambidec~
cc -DPD -I "/Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/src"  -DUNIX -DMACOSX -I /sw/include    -Wall -Wextra -Wshadow -Winline -Wstrict-aliasing -O3 -ffast-math -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -arch arm64 -mmacosx-version-min=10.6 -o grambidec.pd_darwin.o -c grambidec.c
grambidec.c:41:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambidec_tilde *x = (t_grambidec_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambidec.c:43:16: warning: unused variable 'APin2' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_sample  *APin2 =    (t_sample *)(w[3]);
               ^
grambidec.c:44:16: warning: unused variable 'APin3' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_sample  *APin3 =    (t_sample *)(w[4]);
               ^
grambidec.c:45:16: warning: unused variable 'APin4' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_sample  *APin4 =    (t_sample *)(w[5]);
               ^
grambidec.c:69:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambidec_tilde *x = (t_grambidec_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambidec.c:78:23: warning: variable 'sample2' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
    t_sample sample1, sample2, sample3, sample4;
                      ^
grambidec.c:78:41: warning: variable 'sample4' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
    t_sample sample1, sample2, sample3, sample4;
                                        ^
grambidec.c:102:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambidec_tilde *x = (t_grambidec_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambidec.c:113:41: warning: variable 'sample4' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
    t_sample sample1, sample2, sample3, sample4;
                                        ^
grambidec.c:143:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambidec_tilde *x = (t_grambidec_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambidec.c:185:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambidec_tilde *x = (t_grambidec_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambidec.c:228:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambidec_tilde *x = (t_grambidec_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambidec.c:282:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambidec_tilde *x = (t_grambidec_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambidec.c:351:37: warning: unused parameter 's' [-Wunused-parameter]
void *grambidec_tilde_new(t_symbol *s, int argc, t_atom *argv) //, t_floatarg test
                                    ^
grambidec.c:473:5: warning: performing pointer subtraction with a null pointer has undefined behavior [-Wnull-pointer-subtraction]
    CLASS_MAINSIGNALIN(grambidec_tilde_class, t_grambidec_tilde, APf);
    ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/src/m_pd.h:529:59: note: expanded from macro 'CLASS_MAINSIGNALIN'
    class_domainsignalin(c, (char *)(&((type *)0)->field) - (char *)0)
                                                          ^ ~~~~~~~~~
15 warnings generated.
++++ info: linking objects in grambidec.pd_darwin for lib grambidec~
cc -undefined suppress -flat_namespace -bundle  -arch arm64 -mmacosx-version-min=10.6  -o grambidec.pd_darwin grambidec.pd_darwin.o  -lc   
ld: warning: -undefined suppress is deprecated
ld: warning: -undefined suppress is deprecated
++++ info: making grambiman.pd_darwin.o in lib grambidec~
cc -DPD -I "/Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/src"  -DUNIX -DMACOSX -I /sw/include    -Wall -Wextra -Wshadow -Winline -Wstrict-aliasing -O3 -ffast-math -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -arch arm64 -mmacosx-version-min=10.6 -o grambiman.pd_darwin.o -c grambiman.c
grambiman.c:64:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambiman_tilde *x = (t_grambiman_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambiman.c:139:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambiman_tilde *x = (t_grambiman_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambiman.c:226:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambiman_tilde *x = (t_grambiman_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambiman.c:252:32: warning: variable 'sample3' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
    t_sample sample1, sample2, sample3, sample4, sample10;
                               ^
grambiman.c:306:24: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable]
    t_grambiman_tilde *x = (t_grambiman_tilde *)(w[1]);
                       ^
grambiman.c:370:37: warning: unused parameter 's' [-Wunused-parameter]
void *grambiman_tilde_new(t_symbol *s, int argc, t_atom *argv)
                                    ^
grambiman.c:436:5: warning: performing pointer subtraction with a null pointer has undefined behavior [-Wnull-pointer-subtraction]
    CLASS_MAINSIGNALIN(grambiman_tilde_class, t_grambiman_tilde, APf);
    ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/src/m_pd.h:529:59: note: expanded from macro 'CLASS_MAINSIGNALIN'
    class_domainsignalin(c, (char *)(&((type *)0)->field) - (char *)0)
                                                          ^ ~~~~~~~~~
7 warnings generated.
++++ info: linking objects in grambiman.pd_darwin for lib grambidec~
cc -undefined suppress -flat_namespace -bundle  -arch arm64 -mmacosx-version-min=10.6  -o grambiman.pd_darwin grambiman.pd_darwin.o  -lc   
ld: warning: -undefined suppress is deprecated
ld: warning: -undefined suppress is deprecated
++++ info: making grambipan.pd_darwin.o in lib grambidec~
cc -DPD -I "/Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/src"  -DUNIX -DMACOSX -I /sw/include    -Wall -Wextra -Wshadow -Winline -Wstrict-aliasing -O3 -ffast-math -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -arch arm64 -mmacosx-version-min=10.6 -o grambipan.pd_darwin.o -c grambipan.c
grambipan.c:423:5: warning: performing pointer subtraction with a null pointer has undefined behavior [-Wnull-pointer-subtraction]
    CLASS_MAINSIGNALIN(grambipan_tilde_class, t_grambipan_tilde, APf);
    ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/src/m_pd.h:529:59: note: expanded from macro 'CLASS_MAINSIGNALIN'
    class_domainsignalin(c, (char *)(&((type *)0)->field) - (char *)0)
                                                          ^ ~~~~~~~~~
1 warning generated.
++++ info: linking objects in grambipan.pd_darwin for lib grambidec~
cc -undefined suppress -flat_namespace -bundle  -arch arm64 -mmacosx-version-min=10.6  -o grambipan.pd_darwin grambipan.pd_darwin.o  -lc   
ld: warning: -undefined suppress is deprecated
ld: warning: -undefined suppress is deprecated
++++info: target all in lib grambidec~ completed

This is my Makefile:

# Makefile for mylib

lib.name = grambidec~

class.sources = grambidec.c grambiman.c grambipan.c

datafiles = grambilib-help.pd readme.md

include Makefile.pdlibbuilder

Any suggestion? Thanks again!

Hi. Thanks for the response. Yes I'm introducing a 2 second delay on purpose within Pd. I tried using |delay~| and also Zexy's |z~| hoping for more control. Unfortunately we can't put the microphone away from the speaker. It's an outdoor installation with the intention that kids run up to it, make their crazy noises, and hear more crazy noises come back to them.

All I've come up with so far is to use |bonk~| or |sigmund~| (I'm trying both to compare results) to see when the kid starts talking into the mic. I make the mic live for 2 seconds then cut the mic for 2 seconds when I see that. I'm thinking to add some LEDs to give the kid an indication of when the mic is live. That's the best I got so far.

I have installation where a person makes a sound in a microphone and they hear the sound manipulated back 2 seconds later. The issue is that the mic also hears the delayed sound coming from the speaker so the sound gets stuck in a 2 second feedback loop. I'm considering workarounds involving cutting the mic gain but the ideal solution in my mind would be to cancel the sound coming from the speaker to the microphone while simultaneously continuing to actively capture sounds from people.

I played with delaying the sound using Zexy's [z~] instead of [delay~] and then subtracting the delayed sound from what the mic heard. With this method I tried to tweak the delay, considering the time it takes for the sound to travel from the speaker to the mic, but couldn't get any meaningful results. I also tried playing with this patch:
https://github.com/JosephEoff/PureData_NoiseFilter

and that did a great job removing feedback when no 2 second delay was present but it doesn't seem to be the appropriate tool for my problem.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Maybe 0.52-1 was running using Rosetta2 which is emulating Intel. A compiled external has to be for both the operating system and underlying architecture. Intel mac is x64, and M1/M2 is arm64/aarch64.

you can go look at these https://deken.puredata.info/ - you need ones that say 'Darwin-amd64-32' to run built for M1/M2 Macs .. But lets see the mac lore is they let you keep Rosetta for two versions of Mac OS, so for now you can stick with Rosetta2 (and that means install the Intel Mac version of PD and emulate it, at some point they will release like 13.3 or whatever theyre at (I'm still using mojave) and take it away but hopefully by then the externals you need will be compiled (or you can compile them yourself), otherwise stick with Big Sur or whatever you are on to keep Rosetta2 - I really haven't been paying attention.

don't feel like you need to let it go -- but think about how to prove this - m2, m1 whatever is aarch64 - everything was recompiled nothing was the same - latency in coreaudio is not low anymore like it was with intel macs helping a lot of people in pd vanilla cant get audio working and fix it to up their delay msec. It's not an intel mac anymore and for example a lot of compiled externals dont work because they need to be compiled for OS+arch. (mac is d-arwin, windows is ms-icrosoft, linux is l)

its not a mac like you think it is, intel mac was a combination of x64_86 processor that said any 32 bit (86) was banned and couldnt run after mojave even tho it can - and openDarwin at the lowest level.

camomile uses libpd and is frozen in an older version of PD right now - the dev for it, going to college, life is too busy to poke this bear - personally I get it - puttin somthing out for free - honestly I dont understand how it even works without being recompiled for darwin aarch64 (even then it would be for like PD 0.50 because the dev is busy with a normal life) -

your best bet is to try and switch to plugdata because it started with camomile but is super up to date - runs as a VST, you can complain and it gets fixed and you can redownload the nightly (which is the most current stable/dev version with all the new fixes) and does all sorts of magic tricks imo

@jameslo Yes... it seems you need a pre M1 Mac to use VST or VST2..... and VST3 has no midi support...... https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst2-dropped-in-macs-cubase-12-the-end-of-midi-vst-plugins/749798
So digging for the 2012 Mac is the only option... or Windows virtualization (paid) as Bootcamp disappeared with the M1...
David.