• Coalman

    So, a while ago I was discussing an issue on here in which vbap crashes when asked to configure more than 16 speakers. This issues turned out to be a known bug: https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1012/
    In the meantime Pierre Guillot has written a brilliant new vbap~ but this one, as indicated by the tilde is a audio rate object and the other is not, which makes it a lot less expensive if you are using a lot of them...which is not unlikely if you are using a lot of speakers.

    LUCKILY, according to the thread in the bug report above the original vpab has been repaired! This is great news, except I cannot find it. IOhannes m zmolnig says in that bug report ""with rev.17464" is a specific revision of the vbap external (the current one), as found in the SVN repository." but I do not see it there (maybe one of you can point me to it?) and also I wonder if it will be compiled? I have been having an issue in that many of these great developments for spatial audio either do not work or windows - in particular windows 7 -or are completely macOS- centric, which is a little bit sad as Mac is such an expensive platform. I love the HOA library for example, but the cream externals it depends on do not work on windows *7) at least not in my experinece, though they work brilliantly on mac. but anyway I am on a tangent...I was just wondering if anyone can tell me how to get this fixed vbap from the SVN and if it will be compiled?

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  • Coalman

    I had that x11 problem before too, and it had to do with the specific version of x11 that I had. but really you can just install vanilla and use deken under the help menu to install (most) of the libraries you need. some others you might have to install manually but it is not really that hard and there are a lot of tutorials on this forum and elsewhere showing how to do it. then you just specify the library in the name with the object that isn't working [library/object~] and there you are. in the case of z~ its [zexy/z~].
    its a solution since pd extended isn't being developed any more. finding out what library objects are in can usually be done by googling them or searching on one of the many "lists of pure data objects" various people have compiled.
    or, as jancsika mentioned above, the amazing purr data :)

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  • Coalman

    did your computer crash?
    sounds like multiple problems at work:
    the locked files sound like a kind of safety mechanism to avoid corruption
    locked files on windows (if you are on windows) can usually be unlocked the same way they can be hidden or unhidden. just right-click, then properties and down at the bottom of the properties windows are some options

    you could try to re-install pd, which is simple enough, just download vanilla
    then use deken under "find externals" to get the libraries you need and update your patch. there are tutorials on the forum for how to do this.

    otherwise check your audio settings and make sure what is in the pd audio settings dialog matches the settings for your audio interface

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  • Coalman

    try testing on somebody else's phone...that can narrow some of the errors down
    I would be surprised if PD 0.47.1 (thats what you meant, right?) was the problem because it seems like people have been using that combination for a while with some success.

    It could be a problem with the patch, are you loadbanging lots of stuff upon opening the patch? if so check for conflicts there, see what order things are being loaded in

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  • Coalman

    @weightless I like this idea of bracketing strings (I like the visual language too). I guess that the brackets as delimiters would behave as part of the generating shapes that seed further generations propagated from that point. the thing is, if the L system is iterating something with simple fractal rules like a cantor set, and this is deterministic and the rules themselves don't change over time, an isolated branch would be then similar to another piece from a lower order of magnitude anyway. a segment of a future generation will be a segment of the generative string in the first place, just "out of phase" (in a different order due to a different starting place). so, in that sense it is like what I was trying to get at before, a loop where you could run the process to some level of complexity then return back and do it again. I guess that is actually not at all a hard thing to do, I was just excited by the way you implemented this, super great.

    this website might be of interest: http://algorithmicbotany.org/
    there is a whole book in pdf on there about generating fractal plant morphologies with L-Systems

    posted in abstract~ read more
  • Coalman

    yay!! I had a quick look and this is just great! I can't wait to test this for real, change the rules and stuff.

    it is true that it is a bit cpu intensive, but in an odd way. for example, pd's "load meter" patch doesn't show much increase in cycles, but in my (windows) task manager I can see the cycles increasing with the number of processes pd is running. iterating very slowly allows me to get further before pd starts freezing, and cpu gets into the 90s.
    I wonder about implementing a sort of setable "loopback" in the iterations, where from a user-defined point a specific branch is chosen and iterated again from the beginning. That way one could grow the system, iterate through a chosen number of generations for some user-defined purpose, and then chose some segment of that output as a new starting point to run the process again from the beginning.

    posted in abstract~ read more
  • Coalman

    @Pierre-Guillot Thank you! I will try this. It looks amazing actually. You are really doing amazing work in general, so I really appreciate you making these suggestions. I found Hoa and Cream to work great for a large project I was involved in earlier this summer. Just more recently when I wanted to re-visit the project and didn't have access to the super hot macintosh that I was able to use before, I ran into trouble. I am pretty sure the problem was Cream not initiating properly on windows 7.
    looking forward to exploring this vbap option. have CMake, so will try and get it going later! Thank you again!

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  • Coalman

    @whale-av I am indeed a fan of Ricky Graham's ambisonic externals. Great stuff.
    Vbap is a different system though, and I think I can get a different kind of localizability than with the ambisonic stuff.. I might see about using matrix~ to stack separate instances, mulitplying the outputs of different ones together...I am doubtful that this will work but its an interesting idea!.
    One interesting thing is that vbap in the repository is v0.0, and the date 2015 - I guess when it was uploaded to the repository- but vbap on the pure data site (https://puredata.info/downloads/vbap) is 1.0,3,2 and claims to have "fixed speaker setup bug" (dated 2012). This sounds promising but again its source code so has be compiled.

    on a philosophical note, its not that I think more speakers are always better, I am even quite a fan of mono, just this particular project is asking for it, and there is a research interest there too, and I have access to this amazing system, so I want to try it. I think those are good reasons to go for more than 8 speakers.

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  • Coalman

    this is strange. since I couldn't get the Hoa and Cream libraries working properly on my Windows 7 machine I have moved towards Vbap~ instead. This has been working fine for 8 channels, however I have a project with 24 channels. When I send vbap~ the speaker definitions I get this error back:

    pd: getbytes() failed -- out of memory

    any suggestions on what to do about this?
    super frustrating. I get no error for up to 16 channels. after that when I define new speakers it erroneously reports that I should "configure loudspeakers first" but of course I already configured them...then if I try to go much above that in speaker count pd just crashes.
    For example:
    [define_loudspeakers 3 0 0 0 30 0 50 45 0 45 30 45 50 90 0 90 30 90 50 135 0 135 30 135 50 180 0 180 30 180 50 -135 0 (
    |
    [vpab~]
    works fine
    but
    [define_loudspeakers 3 0 0 0 30 0 50 45 0 45 30 45 50 90 0 90 30 90 50 135 0 135 30 135 50 180 0 180 30 180 50 -135 0 -135 30 -135 50 -90 0 -90 30 -90 50 -45 0 -45 30 -45 50 (
    |
    [vpab~]
    crashes.
    super frustrating.
    J

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  • Coalman

    ah no it is definately Cream crashing things, because hoa patches that do not contain Cream GUI object work fine. problem then is that I cannot refer to help files which is a drag because I need to change settings for the different configurations I am experimenting with. meters would also be useful of course, one of the advantages of these libraries.

    I wish i could just abandon this windows 7 quest and use the school's super hot macs, but unfortunately I haven't administrator privileges on those and therefore have other problems

    I wonder if i should try to recompile cream?

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