it's a recursive thing: I'll walk through part of an example:
say the list has 5 elements.
The list comes in, and goes into the open spigot.

so at this point the [t a a a a] is sending a list of 5 elements. the following is what happens to the right [list-split] at this moment:
the first 2 elements of the list are sent back to the upper trigger, and go back into the spigot, where they are split again into lists of length 1. element 1 goes back into the upper trigger and out of the outlet, and then the second does as well.

All of this happens before the list of 5 elements is even sent to the left [list split], because of the trigger. A similar thing occurs:
the last 3 elements of the 5-element list are sent to the upper trigger and into the open spigot, and then the first element of that is split off and sent out the outlet. Then the last 2 elements are sent through the spigot and split, and are sent out in order.

The crucial thing to understand is the recursive nature; it has to do with the depth-first message passing in pd.
The first half of the list is split off before the second half, and sent to be split in half again before the second half of the original list is even processed. So it goes the first half of the first half of the first half, etc. until the first element is sent to the outlet. Then it goes back up the "stack" to the second halves of the lists that it missed in doing the first half every time (this happens because of the triggers). So after the first element is sent, the second element is sent. After that, elements 3 and 4 (in a list since they weren't even processed to be split yet) are split and sent out in order. then elements 5-8, which are still in a list, are sent back and processed in the same manner.

Hopefully that's somewhat clear..

(rambling extra stuff:)
From a "computer science" perspective, you could say that you process the first half and put the second half on a "stack" , and then go into the first half, split it in half, put the second half on the "stack", etc. And then after the 1st element is put out, repeat that process for each thing on the top of the stack until you end up with 1 element:

in "pseudocode" (with a datatype "list" and an assumed stack):

function splitlist (list inlist) {
         list firsthalf;
         list secondhalf;
         if length(inlist) == 1 then {
                     output(inlist); -- pass the element
                     if stack exists then {
                            secondhalf = popstack(); -- get the next thing on the stack
                            splitlist(secondhalf); -- call the function recursively
                     }
        } else {
                   firsthalf, secondhalf = split(inlist); -- split the list, pass to variables
                   pushstack(second half); --- push the second half onto the stack
                   splitlist(firsthalf); -- call the function recursively
         }
}

I think that in reality most of this is taken care of in the computer's call stack, though not completely sure on how the memory for the lists is dealt with

Hello,

after several attempts over the years to connect PD and Blender via Osc i just tried a different route being inspired by my work with Processing and PD. I tried to simple down the process and work directly with udp sockets, basically getting rid of formating problems between different Osc implementations. After the switch i could easily send arrays with thousands of values from PD to Processing and back.
I had the basic socket commands for python from the tutorials floating around and decided to give it another try.
I'm nowhere near fluid in python, but i got it working on the most basic level. The code is simple and short. The best thing is that it should be usable for a few coming Blender versions, since the socket module shouldnt change much.
What happens is that Blender sends the position vector of the game object to PD, which unpacks/packs it again and sends it back. If everything works you should see the incoming PD data in Blenders console.
The problem of dropping framerate seems to occur when PD doesnt send the messages fast enough. To avoid that i attached a [metro 20], this is fast enough on my machine. The always sensor for the receive script is in pulse mode and the frequency is 5. This is also related to the framerate drop. When i use unlimited frequency i get the drop. You have to find the best values of message frequency from PD and logic ticks to compute incoming messages in Blender.

I used Blender 2.65 (no libraries needed) and PureData extended 0.43.4.

I hope this might be a help to others struggling like i did.

Sending data from Blender to Processing also works, but i need to figure out how to get the data in Processing in the right format.

http://www.pdpatchrepo.info/hurleur/_blenderUdp.zip

I did.

For command jackd I get this terminal output:

matjaz@matjaz-NV59C:~$ jackd
jackdmp 1.9.6
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
Copyright 2004-2010 Grame.
jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted
Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted

usage: jackdmp [ --no-realtime OR -r ]
[ --realtime OR -R [ --realtime-priority OR -P priority ] ]
(the two previous arguments are mutually exclusive. The default is --realtime)
[ --name OR -n server-name ]
[ --timeout OR -t client-timeout-in-msecs ]
[ --loopback OR -L loopback-port-number ]
[ --port-max OR -p maximum-number-of-ports]
[ --midi OR -X midi-driver ]
[ --verbose OR -v ]
[ --clocksource OR -c [ c(ycle) | h(pet) | s(ystem) ]
[ --replace-registry ]
[ --silent OR -s ]
[ --sync OR -S ]
[ --temporary OR -T ]
[ --version OR -V ]
-d backend [ ... backend args ... ]
Available backends may include: alsa, dummy, freebob, firewire or net

jackdmp -d backend --help
to display options for each backend

and for qjackctl:
The same control GUI opened where I clicked start.

15:38:11.262 Patchbay deactivated.
15:38:11.263 Statistics reset.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
15:38:11.286 ALSA connection graph change.
15:38:11.482 ALSA connection change.
15:38:19.241 Startup script...
15:38:19.242 artsshell -q terminate
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
sh: artsshell: not found
15:38:19.646 Startup script terminated with exit status=32512.
15:38:19.646 JACK is starting...
15:38:19.646 /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -d/dev/dsp -r44100 -p256 -n2 -Xseq
15:38:19.649 JACK was started with PID=2544.
Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted
Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted
jackdmp 1.9.6
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
Copyright 2004-2010 Grame.
jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10
Cannot lock down memory area (Cannot allocate memory)
ALSA lib control.c:882:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL /dev/dsp
control open "/dev/dsp" (No such file or directory)
ALSA lib control.c:882:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL /dev/dsp
control open "/dev/dsp" (No such file or directory)
audio_reservation_init
Acquire audio card Audio-1
creating alsa driver ... /dev/dsp|/dev/dsp|256|2|44100|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
ALSA lib control.c:882:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL /dev/dsp
control open "/dev/dsp" (No such file or directory)
Cannot initialize driver
JackServer::Open() failed with -1
Failed to start server
15:38:19.743 JACK was stopped with exit status=255.
15:38:19.745 Post-shutdown script...
15:38:19.746 killall jackd
jackd: no process found
15:38:20.153 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256.
15:38:21.703 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
15:38:31.152 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
15:38:42.143 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
15:39:02.300 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started

I'm lost.

Hi,

Yes.
I have turned on the computer and freshly started jackd. I start it from qjackcti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qjackctl).

Error messages:

1. first window:
Could not connect to JACK server as client.

• Overall operation failed.
• Unable to connect to server.
  Please check the messages window for more info.

2. Message window:

13:55:36.236 Patchbay deactivated.
13:55:36.254 Statistics reset.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
13:55:36.336 ALSA connection graph change.
13:55:36.559 ALSA connection change.
13:55:36.560 ALSA connection graph change.
13:55:38.356 Startup script...
13:55:38.357 artsshell -q terminate
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
sh: artsshell: not found
13:55:38.760 Startup script terminated with exit status=32512.
13:55:38.760 JACK is starting...
13:55:38.760 /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -d/dev/dsp -r44100 -p256 -n2 -Xseq
13:55:38.798 JACK was started with PID=2106.
Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted
Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted
jackdmp 1.9.6
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
Copyright 2004-2010 Grame.
jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10
Cannot lock down memory area (Cannot allocate memory)
ALSA lib control.c:882:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL /dev/dsp
control open "/dev/dsp" (No such file or directory)
ALSA lib control.c:882:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL /dev/dsp
control open "/dev/dsp" (No such file or directory)
audio_reservation_init
Acquire audio card Audio-1
creating alsa driver ... /dev/dsp|/dev/dsp|256|2|44100|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
ALSA lib control.c:882:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL /dev/dsp
control open "/dev/dsp" (No such file or directory)
Cannot initialize driver
JackServer::Open() failed with -1
Failed to start server
13:55:39.278 JACK was stopped with exit status=255.
13:55:39.279 Post-shutdown script...
13:55:39.279 killall jackd
jackd: no process found
13:55:39.700 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256.
13:55:40.822 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
13:55:54.576 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
13:58:38.483 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started
13:59:09.197 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
Cannot connect to server socket
jack server is not running or cannot be started

As you can see the last paragraph (...jjack server is not running or cannot be started...) then repeats itself over and over again every 30 seconds.

Seems like Jack isn't working??

Thanks.

Hi

I'm trying to extend the functionality of my APC40. To do this i would like to capture the midi data from the device and send it via the IAC driver to Ableton Live. With a second Bus of the IAC driver i would like to pass the signals from Ableton Live via pd to the Device.
But this doesn't work for me.

The first Problem is that I'm not sure if the bidirectional communication works. I've read in this forum that pd uses the first 16 midi channels for the first device and another 16 channels from 16 to 32 for the second device.
So i made the APC40 my first input device and the IAC Bus 1 my first output device. IAC Bus 2 is my second input device and my second output device is the APC40. Then i only connected all midi ins that are described in the help file with the midi outs.
While doing this i've noticed that no sysexout exist.

This leads to the second problem.
APC40 and live do a handshake. but this handshake doesn't work in my case. I think this is because no sysexout data is passed through.

I hope I described my setup understandable and you could tell me if the bidirectional communication works the way I've tried to get it to work and if you know how to make the handshake work.

Mayb one of you has already solved this problem. It would also help me if you know a way to intercept the communication without pd. But it would be great if it works with a free tool.(I know that it could be done with bome's midi translator)

hi,

i do have 2 devices setup under "midi settings".
As input device 1 i have the device A, no device as input device 2.
As output device 1 i have the device B, as output device 2 i have the device A.

i red in this forum that device 1 sends on the channels 0-16 and device 2 sends on the channels 17-32.

when i first tried it worked pefectly. after a restart it was totally different. like device 1 and 2 sended on the channels 17-32 (of course then it makes no sense to specify the midi channel 2 on the "noteout" object).

i found out that a different order in input devices and output devices gives different midi channel depandancies.

it feels a little bit random. Is there a way to make sure or to specify which device uses which midi channel?

thanx,
slx

http://eyebeam.org/events/rjdj-skillshare

December 5, 2009

12:00 -- 1:30 PM : Introductory workshop on Pd with Hans-Christoph Steiner
2:00 -- 6:00 PM : SkillShare w/Steiner and members of RjDj programming team

Free, capacity for up to 30 participants

RSVP HERE: http://tinyurl.com/ykaq3l3

Hans-Christoph Steiner returns to Eyebeam with members of the RjDj programming team from Europe to help turn your iPhone or iPod-Touch into a programmable, generative, and interactive sound-processor! Create a variable echo, whose timing varies according to the phone's tilt-sensor or an audio synthesizer that responds to your gestures, accelerations and touches. Abuse the extensive sound capabilities of the Pure Data programming language to blend generative music, audio analysis, and synthy goodness. If you're familiar with the awesome RjDj, then you already know the possibilities of Pure Data on the iPhone or iPod Touch (2nd and 3rd generation Touch only).

Creating and uploading your own sound-processing and sound-generating patches can be as easy as copying a text file to your device! In this 4-hour hands-on SkillShare, interactive sound whiz and Pure Data developer Hans-Christoph Steiner and several of the original RjDj programers will lead you through all the steps necessary to turn your phone into a pocket synth.

How Eyebeam SkillShares work

Eyebeam's SkillShares are Peer-to-Peer working/learning sessions that provide an informal context to develop new skills alongside leading developers and artists. They are for all levels and start with an introduction and overview of the topic, after which participants with similar projects or skill levels break off into small groups to work on their project while getting feedback and additional instruction and ideas from their group. It's a great way to level-up your skills and meet like-minded people. This SkillShare is especially well-suited for electronic musicians and other people who have experience programming sound. Some knowledge of sound analysis and synthesis techniques will go a long way.

We'll also take a lunch break in the afternoon including a special informal meeting about how to jailbreak your iPhone!

Your Skill Level

All levels of skill are OK as long as you have done something with Pd or Max/MSP before. If you consider yourself a beginner It would help a lot to run through the Pd audio tutorials before attending.

NOTE: On the day of the SkillShare we will hold an introductory workshop from 12:00 until 1:30 PM, led by Steiner, for those who want to make sure they're up-to-speed before the actual SkillShare starts at 2:00. The introductory workshop is for people who have some done something in Pd or Max/MSP but are still relative beginners in the area of electronic sound programming.

What You Should Bring

You'll need to bring your iPhone or iPod Touch (2nd or 3rd generation Touch only), your own laptop, a headset with a built-in mic (especially if using an iPod Touch) and the data cable you use to connect your device to your laptop. Owing to a terrific hack, you won't even need an Apple Developer License for your device!

More Information

RjDj is an augmented reality app that uses the power of the new generation personal music players like iPhone and iPod Touch to create mind blowing hearing sensations. The RjDj app makes a number of downloadable scenes from different artists available as well as the opportunity to make your own and share them with other users. RjDj.me

Pd (aka Pure Data) is a real-time graphical programming environment for audio, video, and graphical processing. Pd is free software, and works on multiple platforms, and therefore is quite portable; versions exist for Win32, IRIX, GNU/Linux, BSD, and MacOS X running on anything from a PocketPC to an old Mac to a brand new PC. Recent developments include a system of abstractions for building performance environments, and a library of objects for physical modeling for sound synthesis.

kill your television

Thanks ... it is indeed. What does it do? The help file just has a patch which lists devices without explaining what it does ... How can it help me route keystrokes to PD when its not the active window ?

if it helps this is what I get when I run the patch

hidin: ** found 9 devices on your system
DEVICES: -1 None
DEVICES: 1
DEVICES: 2
DEVICES: 3
DEVICES: 4
hidin: -- could not get device #5: Access is denied.

hidin: -- can not read from mouse and keyboard
DEVICES: 5 Unsupported Device
hidin: -- could not get device #6: Access is denied.

hidin: -- can not read from mouse and keyboard
DEVICES: 6 Unsupported Device
hidin: -- could not get device #7: Access is denied.

hidin: -- can not read from mouse and keyboard
DEVICES: 7 Unsupported Device
hidin: -- could not get device #8: Access is denied.

hidin: -- can not read from mouse and keyboard
DEVICES: 8 Unsupported Device
hidin: -- could not get device #9: Access is denied.

hidin: -- can not read from mouse and keyboard
DEVICES: 9 Unsupported Device

Thanks again.

W

for some reason, the list of error messages became even longer......

mix.switch.nice 101
... couldn't create
init.post.dollarg
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
[makesymbol] part of zexy-2.2.3 (compiled: Feb 25 2009)
Copyright (l) 1999-2008 IOhannes m zmölnig, forum::für::umläute & IEM
flow.@parse
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
init.dollar.zero.top
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
list.build
... couldn't create
[demultiplex] part of zexy-2.2.3 (compiled: Feb 25 2009)
Copyright (l) 1999-2008 IOhannes m zmölnig, forum::für::umläute & IEM
init.make.unique
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.length
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
wahwah~: an audio wahwah, version 0.1 (ydegoyon@free.fr)
expr, expr~, fexpr~ version 0.4 under GNU General Public License
mix.switch.nice 101
... couldn't create
init.post.dollarg
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.@parse
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
init.dollar.zero.top
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
list.build
... couldn't create
init.make.unique
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.length
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
mix.switch.nice 101
... couldn't create
init.post.dollarg
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.@parse
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
init.dollar.zero.top
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
list.build
... couldn't create
init.make.unique
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.length
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
mix.switch.nice 101
... couldn't create
init.post.dollarg
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.@parse
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
init.dollar.zero.top
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
list.build
... couldn't create
init.make.unique
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.receive
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.split 1
... couldn't create
list.length
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
flow.send
... couldn't create
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'symbol'
error: inlet: expected '' but got 'list'

i'd really love to check out, what you have build there!

HI,
i'm working on an installation based on this apllication made in java

i communique with pd via OSC
for each collision pd receive a bang with two parameters
height tube
position tube

i'm looking for synthesis metal bars sounds to transform this "thing" into a musical instrument
there is samples here
http://obiwannabe.co.uk/html/sound-design/sound-design-audio.html
http://obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/effect-clonk-002-bar.mp3
http://obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/effect-clonk-002-bar.mp3
http://obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/effect-clonk-004-iron.mp3
http://obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/effect-clonk-006-bar.mp3

What kind of simple patch should i have to make for this goal?

au revoir
Denis