@whale-av All these years I've been changing spaces to a non-breaking space alt+0160 and I could have been using [l2s]
Thank you

if you could use a canvas, the size of the canvas can be small enough to hide behind the label text

@JackPD said:

Also, is there any way to use different font weights in the same patch? Or is it locked to one style?

Technically I would say no. because -font-weight changes all the fonts available
However I just downloaded FontForge, copied ariblk.ttf (Arial Black) from the Arial Font Family in (C;\Windows\Fonts)
opened it in FontForge renamed Black and saved it as Black.otf, write clicked and installed for all users.
opened Pd with: pd -font-face Black -font-weight normal.
Of course there are rights issues and legibility to contend with, but you could start with bold and install a normal
The Helvetica and Times are hard coded and cannot be changed

You can change the default font by adding for eg. -font-face Arial to startup in preferences
or starting pd from a batch file or command prompt with pd.exe -font-face Arial.
I am fairly sure that the font name cannot contain spaces, and as I have just tested DO NOT put the font name in quotes or you will need to edit the registry to fix a tcl error that prevents editing the startup prefs.

This will only affect the Pure Data you are running and would look different if the patch was opened elsewhere.

@whale-av maybe turn it off and on in the message?

@ingox Oh yes, I see, the cut & paste is just creating an event.
using that idea this seem to work

edited sorry left off loadbang

using cut then paste then loadbang in the message while creating also seems to work

@jancsika I have an win 10 hp laptop with multitouch and in a chrome browser can indeed move both circles at the same time, if that helps

In my previous deleted post I was going to say [midiin], [midiout] and [sysexin] were Linux only, but thats not now the case. However I don't think [midiin]processes sysex outside of Linux and I am unable to get anything other than the velocity value from the left outlet.

That said on Windows I can do this