@Jojo-Lapin all your comments and ideas are welcome

@phil123456 The master branch is broken, you should use this commit https://github.com/CICM/CreamLibrary/commit/d7eaac811aaa926bca14bba4e526e451fde29555. I work on several fronts and it's sometimes difficult for me to manage all my projects... As I said, Vanilla is the best stable solution you can't do everything but you can already do a lot. I'm just a poor lonesome developer, sometimes I make mistakes and I push my invalid code on the master branch...

And in hindsight, I think that the CICM wrapper can only be a temporary solution. I made really cool externals with it but it's too complicated to maintain for one man. Another, more global approach should be developed with the other developers of Pure Data.

To resume, don't use it. Ahah.
PureData is very efficient in terms of waste of energy.
It should be a reference to illustrate the damage of lack of community management.

I did the CICM wrapper because it seemed the only solution to create complex GUIs (...and perhaps it is the only solution for the moment). But this necessity of complex GUIs was a consequence of Max's habit. Today I would just remove some GUIs from the HOA library and avoid hours of programming. In fact, I don't know if my energy was wasted, I think I learnt a lot doing it. Yes, the community management can be really disturbing, for example: I wanted to use and to contribute to libPD but I can't even download it and use it because the Pure data subdirectory is invalid and instead of waiting, to send a report, adapt my code to libPD, etc. I preferred to redo the wrapper on my own and to put the contribution off until later... I wanted to gain time. And to be honest with me, I'm dumb, I largely prefer when people contribute with the community!

Learning tcl/tk isn't really harder than learning html/css/js. I'll write down pd's api when I get around to gui plugins.

I was planning on looking through the CICM wrapper eventually too, thanks for all the stuff you've made Pierre.

I need complex GUI. I wanted score notation in Max/MSP. I'll do it with Pure Data.

@Pierre-Guillot "the Pure data subdirectory is invalid " ? how is this possible, never heard of an invalid directory
oh my god the horror, the horror

@Monetus

tcl/tk suites more some vnc client server communication than a local runing gui application that needs all cpu to treat sounds realtime

you dont write a pixel in a canvas you send a command, that needs to be parsed, and so on and so forth...

I'v learned tcl/tk when I was a kid becos nothing else was available...but I consider it a useless layer in the case of puredata and I hate it pretty bad

@Jojo-Lapin I also been looking for complex multi platform gui api's
so far, the best I found (community/tutorials/docs/maintenance) are Qt and wxWidgets

@Pierre-Guillot how do I download that version, there is no download button, do I clone that url with a git client ?

There's JUCE < http://www.juce.com > that is GPL.
That < http://jamiebullock.com/post/41281128485/the-pure-data-gui-a-ux-study > worth the cost to be read.
Have a look on < https://github.com/mhroth/ZenGarden >.

@Jojo-Lapin

zengarden can be usefull indeed, but I found a way to run pd with no gui (-nogui option) and you can still send messages to it or write an external that receives messages (mine reads an mcp3008 analog ic on the SPI bus of a rasperry pi 3) so I can have pots modifying real time data, or use an expression pedal

@phil123456 Here is a better link;
CICM Wrapper
https://github.com/CICM/CicmWrapper/tree/ba2ad8c3c9cdbc29e28b63bec04f4fb2722a1d5d
or Cream
https://github.com/CICM/CreamLibrary/tree/d7eaac811aaa926bca14bba4e526e451fde29555
or with a git client, d7eaac8 for Cream and ba2ad8c for CICM Wrapper

@Pierre-Guillot
"make install" does not seem to install anything so I added object files manualy
It compiles but the linker cant seem to find pd stuffs although it is linked with pd...

cc -I"D:/WORK/DSP/pd-0.46-7/src" -Wno-unused-parameter -DPD -DVERSION='"0.0"'  -O6 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer  -Wall -W -g -o "src/adsr.o" -c "src/adsr.c"
cc   -rdynamic -shared -L"D:/WORK/DSP/pd-0.46-7/src" -L"D:/WORK/DSP/pd-0.46-7/bin" -o "src/adsr.dll" "src/adsr.o"  libCicmWrapper_la-ebox.o libCicmWrapper_la-egraphics.o libCicmWrapper_la-eclass.o libCicmWrapper_la-eobj.o libCicmWrapper_la-ecommon.o libCicmWrapper_la-epopup.o  -lpd  
libCicmWrapper_la-ebox.o: In function `ebox_dosave':
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/ebox.c:819: undefined reference to `s__X'
libCicmWrapper_la-ebox.o: In function `ebox_properties':
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/ebox.c:1098: undefined reference to `s_symbol'
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/ebox.c:1113: undefined reference to `s_symbol'
libCicmWrapper_la-eclass.o: In function `eclass_attr_getter':
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/eclass.c:639: undefined reference to `s_float'
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/eclass.c:653: undefined reference to `s_symbol'
libCicmWrapper_la-eclass.o: In function `eclass_attr_setter':
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/eclass.c:753: undefined reference to `s_float'
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/eclass.c:775: undefined reference to `s_symbol'
libCicmWrapper_la-eclass.o: In function `eclass_addmethod':
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/eclass.c:240: undefined reference to `s_float'
/cygdrive/d/WORK/DSP/CicmWrapper/Sources/eclass.c:252: undefined reference to `s_symbol'

@Pierre-Guillot hello, I've installed Cream and CICM from your links, but I have troubles using "c.menu". The drop-down menu won't let me select another item. If i click or hover the c.menu shows all available items but if click one, it doesn't accept my entry and c.menu doesnt collapse. I'm runnng Pd 0.46.7 on with tcl 8.6.1 on ubuntu.
I think with beta 0.3 c.menu worked on my system. That's a pitty because having a decent drop-down menu is what I'm looking for. Cream is great so far, especially things like c.blackboard offer new possibilities. It would be great if there was an easy way to assign actions to the Mousewheel and RMB.
Are there some tutorials about how to customize or re-write a Cream-GUI-object?

@phil123456 These symbols are defined in m_pd.h. So there must be an error while compiling the CICM wrapper or during the linking. "make install" copies the binary to another place, you can avoid this step and add the path to your binary in pd - this will be easier for development.
PS : I think an issue on the GitHub repository would be better.

@sensn I'll try to figure out what happened to c.menu on Ubuntu. Here is the documentation http://cicm.github.io/CicmWrapper/. You can use mousewheel and RMB, hoa.map uses it for the zoom and to create or remove sources for example.

@sensn

dont want to be a pain, but come on ...

it would have been more respectuous to create your own thread dont you think ?

it's way another question than the purpous of this one

@Pierre-Guillot I gave up, the problem is that I am at work, I have to use cygwin and I am not sure it works correctly

also I am no gcc specialist, I always end up having these kinds of troubles
I link it with PD so these unresolved should not appear,

anyway thanks for the help maybe I'll try later on on my raspberry pi