This may seem like a silly question, but is there some way to tell which version I have installed, pd-vanilla or pd-extended? I installed it from the Ubuntu repository, and the help screen says "Pd version 0.42-5". Does this mean I have the vanilla version?

The reason I'm asking is because I was going through the documentation browser in the help menu, and when I tried to open some of them (for example, rev3~ or complex-mod~), I get an error message "... couldn't create". I don't know if it's because it's not installed properly, or these objects only exist in pd-extended (and I only have pd-vanilla). Or maybe they've been removed but they were left in the documentation?

On a broader note, why are there two versions anyway? Why not just have pd-extended and forget about pd-vanilla? Just curious...

Thanks.

I want to derail the topic slightly and ask why people think PD is hard to learn, especially compared with other software.

Pure Data is a programming environment. When will such software EVER be easy to learn? And for that matter I think Pure data IS the easiest to learn! every possible function is neatly packed into a box with cables that you intuitively put together. there are only two types of cable, so no compatibility, and only minimal type casting or pointer/reference worries.

If you're a complete noob, you just find a box that does what you want, and attach it to something else. Don't want to know how a phasor works?, don't open the box.

How much easier can it get?

... that said, maybe if there were arrows on the cable, so you could see the flow of traffic in other peoples complex messy patches, that would be super handy... I still want colouring of different type of objects too (messages, time based objects, arithmetic objects e.t.c.) and two-click cabling, But none of this will make pure data any easier!

ciao, (not having a go at anyone)

Hi arif,

Pd will always be a programming environment , but things like you mention:
-colouring of different type of objects
-auto-suggestions when you are writing in an object (YES PLEASE!)
-shortcuts
-debuggers
etc

aren't just *fancy* stuff for complex patching. It would make the Pd-learning curve less steep for people like me.

It's like learning C and writing in a textpad compared to a *fancier* text editor made for coding. They can be both used for programming but no one would suggest textpad for a newbie, even for small Hello World programs.

I love Pd community, I' m just jealous and whining about things I see that "other" programs offer.
cheers!

I agree with both of you. Pd is pretty damn intuitive as far as programming environments go. I honestly think people find Pd hard to learn because the background they have coming into it. A lot of people come into Pd from a music background and have little to no experience in programming. But they have Logic, and wonder why they have to do so much work to do "simple" things (and they've also always have been scared of Logic's Environment window). Others come from Max and have a hard time shaking off the fancy gui. And then there are a few who are so used to line code that the patching interface doesn't seem intuitive to them. I don't think people really realize how easy Pd is to learn until they try something else afterwards.

That said, it could always be made easier. I think noobs would benefit from color-coding and auto-correction, or some kind of toolbar with the different types of objects that they can just drag into the patch window. What would really help is in-depth tutorials with simple language. That's what really helps Max/MSP more than any of its fancy gui stuff, and it's what noobies on this forum are always asking for.

I personally would like to see improvements to workflow, like mouseless connections, being able to resize guis by clicking-and-dragging instead of opening the properties dialog, or having an object placed on a cable automatically be inserted in the connection. That one would definitely be nice for live coding.

Just to clarify, since I seemed to have started the discussion, the reason that I think PD has a relatively steep learning curve isn't because of the software itself, I think it's more to do with the disorganized state of the documentation, the lack of on-line help, confusion about which objects are built-in or only available in pd-extended or someone else's add-ons, etc.

I'm a programmer by trade, not a musician, and I've used many different programming languages over the years (over 30 years now), including "traditional" languages like C/C++, Cobol, Java, Perl, Python, etc., as well as graphical languages like PD. Right now for my 9-to-5 I'm working in a "data flow" language called DataStage, which is quite similar to PD, in that you place icons on a canvas and connect them with lines. But instead over processing audio or video, it's used to process data residing in commercial databases.

I just think that the user interface could be a little more user-friendly and helpful. For example, as someone suggested, colour-coding the objects, allowing users to resize objects with the mouse, providing toolbars which can be customized by the user, etc. It may seem cosmetic and unimportant, but it would make learning a little easier and using the tool more enjoyable, which I don't think is a bad thing.

I think the next (0.43) version of Pd allows you to add that kind of functionality with Tk plugins.

Hi again! I un-installed pd-vanilla and installed pd-extended, but when it starts, it displays literally hundreds of error messages like the following:

Pd version 0.42-5extended
compiled 15:15:38 Sep 22 2010
tried ./libdir.l_i386 and failed
tried /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType/libdir.l_i386 and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/cyclone/libdir.l_i386 and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/zexy/libdir.l_i386 and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/creb/libdir.l_i386 and failed
etc.

It did manage to successfully load a few things, like GEM, but most things it didn't find (I checked the install directories, and the files aren't there). Did I do something wrong, or is this normal? I installed by downloading the 'deb' file and double-clicking it, which caused Package Manager to open up. I then clicked on "Install package" or something to that effect. It seemed to install OK, there were no error messages.

Also, I set some start-up parameters (for example, to use OSS), but it seems to ignore them. However, if I start pd from the command line and specify the same parameters as options on the command line, it uses them. Does this make any sense?

Thanks for your help.

Try this and see if it fixes it:

http://puredata.info/docs/faq/when-i-upgraded-to-pd-extended-0-40-3-it-stopped-loading-all-of-the-libraries

Thanks. That solved the first problem (the libraries are getting loaded now), but not the second. For some reason, it seems to be ignoring my start-up flags. I looked in the file '.pdextended' and found the line with the start-up flags:

flags: -oss

But it still starts up with ALSA in effect. I noticed there's another line in the file:

audioapi: 2

Is that conflicting with my start-up flag? Which takes precedence? What is '2'?

@Maelstorm said:

I personally would like to see improvements to workflow, like mouseless connections, being able to resize guis by clicking-and-dragging instead of opening the properties dialog, or having an object placed on a cable automatically be inserted in the connection. That one would definitely be nice for live coding.

Indeed!