So, I have a 16 step array that is basically a 16 step step-sequencer for pitch control.

I'm really new to TouchOSC, and I'm wondering if it is possible to use the grid object in TouchOSC to write onto that 16 step step-sequencer array in PD.

To add insult to injury, I'd also prefer to find out if TouchOSC can somehow magically receive what the Array is showing. (ideally I'm looking at a way to see the array, be it 16 steps, or 65536 steps (my 64kb loopers that i have 16 of them).

Does anyone know if it is possible to do a back'n'forth type thing between TouchOSC on the iPad and PureData?
globpitcharray.pd

@esaruoho Time for bed......
But, to keep you cheerful........ yes, they can communicate in both directions.

You will see in TouchOSC settings.....OSC incoming and outgoing port numbers.
Those are the ports to use with [netsend] and [netreceive] in PD.
An item in TouchOSC sends a message "name/number data" and will respond to the same message received.
You can also change the colours of items in TouchOSC by OSC messages from PD.
David.

@esaruoho OSC is horrible in Vanilla..... because message headers are symbols but can include numbers that Pd interprets as floats. It is much easier to use the MrPeach externals.

Anyway...... vanilla....... plom.zip using a multifader object.
The index currently played by metro turns green.....
David.
Low-res screenshot.......

@whale-av said:

@esaruoho OSC is horrible in Vanilla..... because message headers are symbols but can include numbers that Pd interprets as floats.

[oscparse]
|
[fudiformat]
|
[fudiparse]
|
[list trim]

... and done, numbers-as-symbols become numbers again. It's a bit silly workaround, but I don't feel it reaches the level of "horrible."

Mrpeach handles OSC bundle timestamps, and vanilla [oscparse] doesn't. That's a legit reason, though not much of an issue with TouchOSC.

hjh

@whale-av said:

@esaruoho OSC is horrible in Vanilla..... because message headers are symbols but can include numbers that Pd interprets as floats. It is much easier to use the MrPeach externals.

Anyway...... vanilla....... plom.zip using a multifader object.
The index currently played by metro turns green.....
David.
Low-res screenshot.......

hi! i downloaded this. first of all, thank you very much for making it!
i'm wondering,after loading the tosc file, how is this / how will this talk to PD via TouchOSC? I'm currently using midi only instead of OSC, so maybe that's the issue here?

based on the screenshot and the concept of what you sent, this is exactly what i'm looking for, and will be amazing. just not sure how to get PD and TouchOSC to talk to eachother so that this would work.

Sorry fro the question!

@esaruoho This being a new thread I had forgotten that you were using a wired USB connection.
Yes, that means that you are limited to midi only.
It will be possible to talk both ways but you will be limited to 127 steps for your controls.. so much lower resolution than OSC...... unless you use the pitchbend in TouchOSC and the [bendin] and [bendout] objects in Pd..... see below.
Also I am not sure that you can change data and colour for the same GUI through midi, but you could use 2 GUI's.... a fader and a "push" button or text label above or on top of the fader for the colour.

The 127 step resolution can be improved using pitchbend to get 14-bit resolution...... https://vi-control.net/community/threads/touchosc-has-been-updated.110551/page-3

I am almost certain that Gui objects in TouchOSC can talk midi and OSC at the same time.
But I doubt that it will communicate over wireless (required for OSC messages) and USB at the same time.

So the patch I posted was for OSC wireless....... sorry.
The communications between Pd and touchOSC are set in the abstraction [osc-s-r] within the [globpitcharray1] patch in the zip I posted.
There is a TouchOSC layout plom.touchosc in the zip that should be used with this patch (for a test demo).
You would need to fix the IP address of the Ipad (static address) and use that address for [netsend] and [netreceive] in [osc-s-r] ....... if you ever get over your fear of using Wi-Fi for this.... or just feel like trying it to see what it will do.......
David.

@whale-av said:

@esaruoho This being a new thread I had forgotten that you were using a wired USB connection.
Yes, that means that you are limited to midi only.

Is that really true? I used to use TouchOSC on an Android tablet. I could connect USB to the computer, and then on the tablet, open a tethered network connection, and this would assign a new IP address to the computer. Then I could use the IP address in TouchOSC and it 100% worked for OSC.

Unfortunately that feature has been removed from the Android versions on my current devices (but these are skinned Android forks, not "real" Android, so the feature might still exist). For iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph45447ca6/ios

Connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot
You can use Wi-Fi, a USB cable, or Bluetooth to connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot. Do one of the following:
...
Use USB: Connect iPhone and your computer with a cable. If you receive an alert that says Trust this Computer?, tap Trust. In your computer’s network preferences, choose iPhone, then configure the network settings.
...

After that, the Mac should have an IP address that directly connected to the mobile, through the cable. There's no reason at this point TouchOSC would be prevented from sending and receiving OSC messages (while allowing MIDI...? that doesn't make any sense).

@esaruoho

"just not sure how to get PD and TouchOSC to talk to eachother so that this would work."

The first thing I teach in my class about getting data from an external device is: print out the data so that you understand what's coming in.

This goes for MIDI, OSC, Arduino, computer vision packages -- you can't do much of anything without knowing the format of the messages coming in.

You should get print outs something like:

print: list 1 fader1 0.777236

The specific keyword and number of arguments will be different for the multi-slider, but you can find that out by reading the console window.

The real message coming from TouchOSC is like /1/fader1 0.777236. [oscparse] splits the command path /1/fader1 into separate symbols. ([mrpeach/unpackOSC] doesn't do that -- from this object, you would get print: /1/fader1 0.777236.)

At this point, with [oscparse], you will run into the problem whale-av mentioned: 1 in the printed message is a symbol, but if you try to match it using [route 1], it will fail because [route] will be looking for a number. That's the workaround I posted: [oscparse] --> [fudiformat] --> [fudiparse] --> ...

Then the other detail is that you need to drop the list type tag before routing.

And [route] will give you the argument values, now split into one dataflow pathway per control.

hjh

@ddw_music Good idea, tethering, if TouchOSC will use the network protocol while connected by USB.
Thank you for reminding me of the fudi objects...... you have told me before but I am getting old.
I think it will stick in my memory now..... embarrassed....
Is there a way to use the fudi objects for sending, or are the format commands passing in before the message the only way of dealing with types?
David.

@whale-av said:

Is there a way to use the fudi objects for sending, or are the format commands passing in before the message the only way of dealing with types?

The symbol-vs-number issue is only for the command path, not for arguments. [oscformat] concatenates the command path list into a symbol -- if the command path is, in Pd terms, 1 fader1, then the outgoing command path will be /1/fader1 and there's no way for part of this single symbol to be numeric while the test isn't. So you don't need to convert the outgoing command path.

Message arguments are something else entirely.

hjh

hmm. try as i might, i'm just not getting a connection going.
i've used what @ddw_music said about [netreceive -u -b 7878] -> [oscparse] -> [print]
but to no avail.
on the iPad, I've set OSC to connect to TCP SERVER set to port 7878.
on TouchOSC on macOS, I've set up OSC -> Connections 1 -> TCP Client and used Browse to find the iPad Mini.

In theory, I should now be rolling. instead, PD tells me warning: MIDI timing FIFO overflowed - nothing appears on the console, and the iPad keeps trying to reconnect to the server (I've got the Editor Network Server Enabled so can edit the TouchOSC script while using it on the iPad)

I don't know what I'm doing wrong anymore. I need to be using both Bridge, MIDI and now OSC.

@esaruoho You will need to select UDP client........ not TCP...... to connect to [netreceive -u -b]

Fifo (first in first out) overflowed probably just means the buffer has filled to overflow as it is not managing to send the messages onwards.

For TCP then use [netreceive -b] ...... remove the -u....
David.

First, don't give up! You're probably pretty close -- it's just that there are several links in the chain, and they all have to be right:

• Protocol must match: If it's [netreceive -u -b], then the sender needs to use UDP (as the preceding post explains).
• IP address must match.
• TouchOSC sending-to port must match the Pd receiving-on port. (In other contexts, I've often seen people's initial attempts with OSC get slowed down by confusion about TO and FROM ports. I think you're fine here though.)
• Also the LAN needs to allow messages between devices. (Some LANs can be configured to block local communication.)
• Also the computer's firewall needs to allow traffic on the ports being used.

But once you struggle through these issues the first time, then you understand it and it's much easier later.

hjh

so i decided to ditch UDP and just use TCP.

after removing the -u i had to restart PD + TouchOSC and re-enable TCPIP Client and Server.
now I'm getting really noisy print errors and complaints about oscparse not receiving OSC messages. (i don't understand what the error is about)

is this error because i'm using tcpip instead of udp?

It's much more common to transmit OSC messages over a LAN using UDP.

From my perspective here: I've been using OSC successfully for years, never ran into any of the headaches you're reporting. I made some suggestions of what has worked for me. Then you do something different from what was suggested ("so i decided to ditch UDP and just use TCP" -- why?) ... and then it doesn't work. So I feel at this point like my ability to help is somewhat limited.

hjh

BTW I can confirm that [netreceive -b] (TCP mode) is not compatible with oscparse. It appears that TCP mode outputs single bytes where UDP mode outputs a whole packet as a list (that is, no way to receive TCP packets)... in 0.52.2, maybe it's changed in 0.54.

Sent identical packets, but...

So... can you try UDP?

hjh

@ddw_music said:

It's much more common to transmit OSC messages over a LAN using UDP.

From my perspective here: I've been using OSC successfully for years, never ran into any of the headaches you're reporting. I made some suggestions of what has worked for me. Then you do something different from what was suggested ("so i decided to ditch UDP and just use TCP" -- why?) ... and then it doesn't work. So I feel at this point like my ability to help is somewhat limited.

hjh

so the reason why i moved from udp was that i couldn't get a connection going on between TouchOSC on iPad, TouchOSC on macOS, TouchOSC Bridge app and PureData.
I could try again, but it looked like UDP required me to know the IP address of both the laptop and the iPad, and that really threw me (i don't know how to figure out what the IP address of the iPad is, or how to make sure it's always the same, same for macOS).

btw after unsuccessfully getting anything going with TCP, i ended up just creating a regular array on TouchOSC and inputting it into PureData, which i got working. the fancier PD + TouchOSC compilation zip provided by @whale-av still sounds very very good and nice, if only i could comprehend what else i need to add to it for it to receive the OSC / UDP.

unfortunately my "also in Finland" go-to-guy on TouchOSC wasn't able to help me with the UDP or TCP connection either. i'm trying to all of this tethered via USB-cable, which normally works for at least MIDI and TouchOSC "on -iPad-editing" via Server inside TouchOSC.
just couldn't figure out UDP/TCP.

i apologize for switching contexts and jumping around from udp to tcp, i have maybe an hour every 2-3 days to try and get something going, and also feel a bit like there's no "TouchOSC with PureData for idiots" blog-post for iPad / macOS going on, or at least i haven't been able to find it.

I've resisted OSC since 2009 pretty much but now that I can control most of my script with TouchOSC on the iPad, it's quite mesmerizing. just getting this stepsequencer going (and back'n'forth communication between PureData and TouchOSC on iPad so i press a button on PureData and TouchOSC also lights up, type thing) would be pretty amazing but i'm probably going about it the wrong way all the time.

I'll try to stick with UDP, since it was mentioned that oscparse only works with that.

@esaruoho

btw after unsuccessfully getting anything going with TCP, i ended up just creating a regular array on TouchOSC and inputting it into PureData, which i got working.

That's good news, but we don't know what you have achieved.
If you get a chance, please write exactly what you have done for the touchosc layout, the connection, the bridge and pd.
A screenshot of the touchosc editor for the simple array, and a screenshot of the settings in touchosc on the ipad.
Plus whatever else you think will make it clear how you succeeded.
David.

@esaruoho said:

and also feel a bit like there's no "TouchOSC with PureData for idiots" blog-post for iPad / macOS going on, or at least i haven't been able to find it.

As I mentioned in another recent thread of yours where you were exploring iPad control options, I had some experiences with this type of setup several years ago:
https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/10184/touchosc-direct-usb-connection-finally-possible-with-midimux

I just tested it & it's still working. (7 years later!) I have midimux & TouchOSC running on the iPad, and studiomux & Pd running on my Mac. As mentioned in my old thread, the iPad must be connected to wifi (any active network, doesn't matter which) in order to send OSC data over the tethered USB connection.

And yes, you will most certainly need to know the IP addresses of the Mac & iPad (for use with [netsend] in Pd, and with TouchOSC on the iPad). I don't know of a way to ensure that they will be persistent, I've always had to reenter them manually every time. Also make sure your in/out port numbers are in order (again, on the Pd side for [netsend] and [netreceive], and on the iPad you can set the in/out port numbers in midimux).

Ah, and finally I'm using [netreceive -u -b] into [oscparse] and [list trim] for receiving in Pd, and [oscformat foo bar etc] into [list prepend send] then [list trim] then [netsend -u -b] for sending out from Pd.

@esaruoho said:

I could try again, but it looked like UDP required me to know the IP address of both the laptop and the iPad, and that really threw me (i don't know how to figure out what the IP address of the iPad is, or how to make sure it's always the same, same for macOS).

Ah right, for bidirectional communication.

Actually in the netreceive help file, there is a flag for this: "optional -f flag for from address & port outlet (0.51+)".

Help file example prints from: list ::ffff:127.0.0.1 57120 where ::ffff:127.0.0.1 is an IPv6 address.

So...

... should configure the [netsend] to send to the first address from which messages were received (and I did a quick test, which worked). If you enable "Ping" in TouchOSC, then it will automatically send a message to the computer, which will trigger the "connect" logic right away.

Incidentally, I didn't know about this feature (never used the "from" address in Pd). My thought process was, "Well... this is a very common requirement, so let me have a look at the [netreceive] help patch and see if there's anything about 'from'" -- and toward the lower right, there's a [print from] box. Hm. Then, what's different about the [netreceive] feeding it is that it isn't only "-u -b xxxx" but rather "-u -b -f xxxx"... what's that "-f"? Then, looking up from there a little bit, there's a list of object creation flags, where "-f" is explained.

So the solution exists, and documentation for that solution is actually reasonably clear.

i have maybe an hour every 2-3 days to try and get something going, and also feel a bit like there's no "TouchOSC with PureData for idiots" blog-post for iPad / macOS going on, or at least i haven't been able to find it.

This I fully understand.

Pd OSC sending, like this. It won't send anything until after you push a connect ip.ad.dr.ess port message into the netsend inlet -- as noted above, you can get the parameters for the connect message from [netreceive].

... producing messages like /1/toggle1 1.0 or /1/toggle2 0.0. This type of message format is what you need to change a control's value on the tablet.

It's also possible to "set" the OSC command path before providing the arguments -- but try the simple way first.

hjh

@ddw_music said:

For iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph45447ca6/ios

Connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot
You can use Wi-Fi, a USB cable, or Bluetooth to connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot. Do one of the following:
...
Use USB: Connect iPhone and your computer with a cable. If you receive an alert that says Trust this Computer?, tap Trust. In your computer’s network preferences, choose iPhone, then configure the network settings.
...
After that, the Mac should have an IP address that directly connected to the mobile, through the cable. There's no reason at this point TouchOSC would be prevented from sending and receiving OSC messages (while allowing MIDI...? that doesn't make any sense).

Hmm. Thing is, I'm using a fully Airplane Mode iPad with no Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Cellular Data connectivity. I'm only using a USB-cable to connect between macOS and iPadOS with TouchOSC - so I'm not 100% how Personal Hotspot would help me make the OSC connection via USB-tethered iPad + macOS.

@whale-av said:

we don't know what you have achieved. If you get a chance, please write exactly what you have done for the touchosc layout, the connection, the bridge and pd.
A screenshot of the touchosc editor for the simple array, and a screenshot of the settings in touchosc on the ipad.
Plus whatever else you think will make it clear how you succeeded.

This I can understand. I hope the contents below will shed some light as to what I accomplished and how I accomplished it.

Okay, I'll try to write in an informative way.

When I realized that I couldn't do UDP/TCPIP/OSC things in a simple-enough (for me) way, and I couldn't get them to talk together, and I just wasn't able to conceive of what I was doing wrong, what I ended up doing is this:

1. Create a Grid in TouchOSC limited to 16
2. Set it up so that it sends to midiCH 6, and from CC 41 to CC 56 (i.e., 16 places)
3. figure out what the math was for getting the 0...127 grid to become -2 to 8 or something. (ok I asked ChatGPT for that and it gave me the answers)
4. Create a really hamfisted PD script that takes the 0...127 input from all of those CCs, and slams the modified 0...127 data to the first inlet of a tabwrite, and a hardcoded message with a number to the second inlet of the tabwrite. It looks really bad, and I could've made it better with a spigot or something, but I just wanted it to work quickly and see if I could use it.
5. The Array <-> TouchOSC Grid is one way, there's no communication from PD back to the Grid object to signify which step is being played.

as mentioned above, it looks like absolute trash. i just wanted it to work since had a working day the next day and limited time. i haven't even taken the time to clean it up, or to re-think how it could be simplified so that it doesn't need to look like such a crazy birdnest. (i really detest when my scripts look like this, and prefer to clear them up and use abstractions, but .. it works for now)

it's a simple thing in TouchOSC

and yep I'm still using MIDI only to talk to TouchOSC Bridge app running on macOS (iPad sends via MIDI to TouchOSC Bridge, which becomes a midiport in PD that i've mapped my PD script to talk to)

so, now that i have this "well it'll do in a pinch, kinda works, aargh but works" type thing, i feel like it would be really cool to comprehend UDP OSC but if it requires manually (and this'd be in the heat of the moment, just before a gig starts) figuring out IP addresses for both the iPad and macOS and changing a PD script just before the gig starts, could be quite nervewracking. But since the grid highlights based on which step it is running in, that would be pretty amazing.