hey folks, i'm sure this can't be a new issue but i'm using PD 0.49 using the [loop~] object (it's in the else library as well as ceammc] and i'm on the warpath to create a variant to **[loop~-help.pd] **that allows reverse, and maybe improve the looping performance so it clicks a bit less. here's a screen:

i've also been looking at the ELSE library from @porres. there's a lot of objects there that could work, but i need to be able to change loop size and the help file for these doesn't seem to indicate that any of the objects can do this - it seemingly loops the whole length.

any assistance on either of these issues would be helpful - thanks!

hi, I have an object "moop~" in my library (in signature) that is similar, it might be helpful to you. It can do reverse with negative "times" messages. (set the end point with "range" messages). It also has a "phase" outlet you can use for windowing

also, I should say that loop~ is an "extra" part of the Pd-vanilla distribution (like bob~ or sigmund~ or fiddle~). the loop object in the ELSE library is something else, some kind of control-rate object by the looks of it

cool! thanks for the clarification. it was a bit confusing.

so i tried the moop~ external and its interesting! it looks quite versatile. i tried it with a 15 sec sample and playing around with the presets i found that about 2/3 or them would produce sound i could hear. i'm obviously inexperienced so i could have easily done something to encourage wonky behavior.

anyway, despite that, enough of the settings worked that i could see its capability. it looks like it does forward/reverse and the pitch change via the [mtof] object and there's a lot of ability to chain together sequences of buffer positions for a complex effect (although it seemed like most of them were non looping).

but the pitch change offered by the (fake i think?) [times $1 pluto] isn't quite what i want in terms of varispeed. i need a more traditional speed control, more like a DJ scratch or pitchwheel scratch but with a variable loop size. is it possible you could give me some tips on getting that into the help patch of moop~? i'm assuming i need something like a [line] or manually driven [phasor~]. i'm pretty inexperienced at this digital signal theory. for example, it's weird how you can drive either input of [sig~],[*~], etc in order to get pitch change. still wrapping my around that...

@metaphysician Yes, [phasor~] is often used. There should be some useful bits in this...... Microsound-granular.pd
David.

@metaphysician In moop~, the transposition is independent from the length of the window. So to play the sample "slower", you play it at a lower transposition. For instance, if you want to play the sample at 1/2 speed you have a transposition of -12. The "times" message is the window length in ms of how long the sample will play for for that play through. So, it might not be what you're looking for after all.

maybe your best bet is using [loop~], and using a construction like this to reverse the phase for reverse playback: (this would go into the "onset [+~]" in the help file above)

as for the clicking, you have 2 options the way I see it: you could either: 1. use a window using the output of your phase from the first outlet of [loop~] or 2. dynamically create a signal that reads the first and last samples from your window and creates the opposite discontinuity whenever the phase resets. The second option is obviously much more involved & tricky.. I would recommend a stretched hanning~ window where you "ramp up" and "ramp down" over a fixed number of samples (say 5 ms worth), and then leave the output of the window @ 1 in the middle

Hi, there, got your email so I'm jumping in. I have to think more about this, but it seems you want the cyclone/wave~ object, that you can use to change the loop points with audio signals. If there's no way to do what you want in ELSE, I'll make sure there's an option for you, just create an issue with a feature request https://github.com/porres/pd-else/issues

thanks to both of you for your reply! @seb-harmonik.ar - i'll check out your approach, as loop~ was getting pretty close to the behavior i wanted in the first place and i couldn't figure out how to get reverse playback.

@porres, actually i would be completely satisfied with current behavior in [player~]. just add the ability to create a loop size without resizing the buffer. this is pretty much what the [groove~] object does in MaxMSP - look at the attributes section:
https://docs.cycling74.com/max5/refpages/msp-ref/groove~.html

the [wave~] object in MaxMSP to my recollection is a bit of a different beast, as it's limited to a very small amount of samples (or it used to be anyway) and is intended for wavetable synthesis, not sample playback from a buffer per se. however looks like the current version in Max removed that sample length limitation though, and works in a similar manner. biggest limitation i can see about it though, is possibly no ability to change pitch, or do reverse playback, both requirements for me. i might be wrong but i don't clearly see those options.

let me check cyclone's [wave~] object reference...okay it looks like variable speed playback and reverse is supported and there's no sample length limitation. but resizing loop length really messes around with the sample playback rate and i'd prefer it not change pitch/rate while that happens.

i think i would put a request in for a feature change add for [player~], as i think it would be helpful to others to have at least one object that could have adjustable loop size as well as directional varispeed.

@metaphysician This will I think do what you want just using [phasor~]....assuming that you do really want the pitch to change as playback speed varies?
It's a mod of the patch I posted above....... maybe.zip
Bi directional varispeed looping without clicks.
Start and end points can be set and changed..
The "speed" fader will loop forwards or backards, faster the more it is moved right or left, slower moving it towards the middle, until it stops at the centre..
Click the stop message [0( to stop.
Click the message box labelled "forwards" to go forwards at normal speed.
Click the message bot labelled " backwards" to go backwards at normal speed.

There is a small logic problem to solve where the absolute beginning or end of the sample is set.
If you think it is useful then I will fix that.
David.

@whale-av - thanks David! that is pretty much indeed what would work for me. oddly enough i play with only one speaker so most of my samples are actually mono, so i don't need it to load stereo sounds into two separate buffers. i did notice the sample start end issue while looping. if i set the end point for the absolute end of the sample i get clicking and the sample doesn't repeat/loop. i was able to solve the issue by moving the end point in from the edge a very small amount and then it behaved fine. i don't currently require the total loop length to the last sample, and may never need to worry about it really.

the only other issue was that the loop region couldn't be set to a really small size. i got pretty close by changing the [metro] timing rate to 10 from 100, though. honestly this is just about everything i need to move forward, so thanks immensely!

scott

ok, I'm adding a "range" method for player, but it'll click.

cheers

the new releases of else carry this new function already

@metaphysician As far as I have gone with "no click" using [threshold~] which does jump detection at samplerate and so solves the inaccuracy of a [metro] + [snapshot~].
Little time to progress it at the moment but maybe on the right path.....
bi-directional-loop_yuk.pd
David.