thanks i'll have another look,with se there's modules(both native+3rd party) like osc,math etc,then you can things together into a container or put loads of containers together and save as a prefab(also save as vst which is nice).so it's a bit similar,not quite as low level,though you can code modules if you know how.
once i learn the jargon and some basics it should get easier.i find it easier to make things from scratch rather than make sense of someones brain.there's loads of examples of se creations,but when you open them up it's a shocking mess to me!
i'm a simple lofi guy,so it's only little noise machines i'll be messin with.
do you think pd will ever have 'save to vst'?

i don't know.

miller said he plans to implement native state saving in pd though, which would be a big bonus.

Hey spacedad, currently there's PdVst (http://crca.ucsd.edu/~jsarlo/pdvst/) which allows you to load your pd patches as a vst in the host of your liking. I tried it once and got it working in flstudio. However, there's a lot of parameter passing and converting. Besides that you also had to use GrIPD, which i don't really like, so i abandonned it. Maybe you'll like it?

Good luck,

Domien

hi domien,
yes i have tried pdvst,sorry i should have mentioned it.
i did get it working in energyXT after a bit of a struggle,tried a couple of synth examples out,worked fine,though i couldn't save presets unless the synth had built in patch system.
pdvst was what got me to try pd really,i'm hoping to get my own creations working, once i get past the basics.
still,save as vst would be nice as it allows you to share your creations further afield.
not really sure why gripd isn't good,i've not got as far as gui's yet and the synth i tried didn't have one anyway.