Hi there. My little problem is that i can't choose between buying Max/MSP or diving for free in Pd. So i started to look for comparisons between these two.
As i see in wikipedia Max link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_(software) there is a long list of well known artists (like Aphex Twin, Tim Hecker) who are using it. As for Pd, there is absolutely no information on the web about famous musicians who are working with this software..
So my question is do you know any electronic/electroacoustic artists who are using Pd?
Or maybe in generally Pd is well less professional than Max?
From what i have tried i can say that sound quality is identical, just Max's interface is far more advanced..
Maybe Pd better suited for game music and for creating things like Reactable?
Thanks for answers.

Just a correction: Max/MSP/Jitter 5 is $699 and Max/MSP 5 is $495.
http://cycling74.com/shop/max/

Now that's a bargain

@snowball said:

Talking about sound quality, i have tried just to compare basic patches with basic oscillators, i have to say that quality is equal..

have you tried to record and invert the phase of output of one of the patches?

... sorry for the awful sounding of the question

No, i haven't and to be honest i didn't understand your question, sorry
Have you tried this, and what results you got?

sorry, i said it sounded awful.
what i mean is:

• you make a simply patch in pd, and the same patch in max
• you record the result of both
• then you compare the two recordings inverting the phase of one of the two recordings

this way we can see if the audio quality is the same or not.

i'm a too proud pd-user to download the trial of max!!!
... joking, i'm only too lazy...

i tried the max/msp for a while years ago, mostly for doing live sampling thingies. lately i took the bull by the horns and managed to build the same kinda things in pd. yes, it was a little hard at first, but this forum turned out to be a great resource. after all, the documentation seems to be the hardest part of pd... or to find out about the existence of all extensions in the first place..

the vst support, or more the unsupport (i'm using osx) seemed like a big deal first. but i got around it eventually. and realized that the basic delay, reverb, bit crusher, filters etc can be done very easily with basic extensions. and using vst's wasn't that easy in max/msp either (i'm talkin version 4 here...)

actually, if you plan to do mostly vst/au-heavy systems, plogue bidule might be worth checking out.

i do miss some of the fancier gui things in max, the waveform displays for example. but i managed to build a replacement in pd, it's a little funky but it works.

personally i've found pd to be at least as stable as max/msp.

Regarding the question of how to delete cables, as a software developer i can say the you can always benefit - in terms of workflow - when you know many keyboard shortcuts. This can help speeding up patching an aweful lot. And copy/paste between dialogs and patches (which worked of 0.40.3 i believe) can also be very handy (although copy/paste is often the root of all evil)...

Hey,
I'm quite missing some tool for fast patch debugging in pd. In MAX if you hover over the cable passing data are shown in floating box. In pd you have to connect number box to know... might be time consuming when tracking some data ( btw. also sending bang via mouse (right click context menu when hovering over the inlet?) would be helpful...)
ales

i prefer pd than max.

i dont like max 5 gui , is is not simple and direct.

and i have the same feeling that pd is more stable than max.

but the usability design of max is better than pd.
and max 5 help center is better too.

I have been attempting to create some music with Pd for about two weeks. It is difficult to understand the theory of the program and to solve issues (errors, patches that are downloaded and don't work as they should etc.). Although I appreciate the flexibility, there is what I would term a "steep learning curve" here. I'm not sure how long I can pursue before I have to find an easier way to get to the things I want to do. Ultimately I am in it for the music and the programming part is a tool. I wish there was clearer documentation so that I could get simple answers. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

It's true that there's quite some learning curve with pd. I've needed 2 attempts to get into it. The first attempt I was rather impatient and was overwelmed by all possibilities and got nowhere. The second time i've given myself about a month time of really trying. What I've noticed is that it helps if you know exactly what you want to achieve. Sometimes it can be better to limit yourself to try to implement just 1 simple idea, instead of trying to get to grips with everything at the same time. So if you have something in your mind and you really don't know where to get started, just post it here and people will try to help you out.

@domien said:

What I've noticed is that it helps if you know exactly what you want to achieve.

This is great advice.

I found that the best way to learn Pd is to start with a clear, simple goal in mind. If possible, break this goal down further into its components and work on one component at a time until you have achieved your goal.

Repeat.

The FLOSS manual is a great place to get started. I didn't discover it until about a year after I started using Pd, but I wish I'd found it sooner. It definitely would've saved me some time.

http://en.flossmanuals.net/puredata

Thank you pd123 and domien these are encouraging words and may be just what I need to get things to happen. I'll give your advice a try iso don't be surprised if you see some specific questions come your way.
multijd

Hi, now i have one little problem on win 7: i can't open any patch via help browser, it stopped working. When i click any of control or audio examples, or any other - nothing happens. Is there any way to sort this problem? Tried reinstall, but didn't helped.

In my experience, I couldn't even use max because it was a lagging crash fiesta. Get Pd because it is awesome.

Here is my experience...

im learning pd before i buy max/msp , since pd is a lot like max but free and there is a whole lot more documentation on PD than max, and the people who developed PD are the same people developing MAX (from what ive read) i figured id learn PD before buying MAX.

This has a lot to do with me buying Reaktor 5 before i learned programming and hated myself for years for that and ended up using the library and almost never opened reaktor after that.

After about 3 or 4 months of annoying reading on PD im on my way to building my first FM synthesis drum machine so yay! i dont feel so stupid now and studying on PD is making me understand Reaktor 5 so im guessing itll help me with max/msp as well.

so take it from someone who made an idiotic choice on purchasing software about 2 years ago based on who is using it, being a fan of richard devine and datachi and electroacoustic music.
Software wont make you sound great only studying hard will.
PD is a great place to start and im guessing itll be a great place to stay...

hope this helps.

I'm not famous but my new CD will contain many uses of Pd

also check out the article I wrote on my switch from OS X -> Linux

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/04/linux-music-workflow-switching-from-mac-os-x-to-ubuntu-with-kim-cascone/

i was thinking about purchasing a new mac and the prices made me think twice but the article is making me think thrice.
From what i read on the comments Linux handles supercollider, pd and reaktor! im definetly considering Linux but im not strong in the programming department i wouldnt want to get tangled in the programming to make it stable and then start producing sounds... i need to read more about Linux before i say anything or make a desition.

thanks

@Roaramburu: you will probably do more fixing the tweaking in Windows than Linux...you can also try Linux from a DVD or usb stick before installing it