instance specific dynamic patching documentation assistance
@Muology the dyn-abs on the right is just showing what is in the abstraction [dyn-abs]. If you open dyn-abs-test.pd you will see that box on the right is not there and nor is the abstraction [dyn-abs]. If you open dyn-abs.pd you will see that the message [hello abstraction( is not there, it is created when you run the abstraction. Sort of a way to self document things, it all ends up in the screenshot and is clearly labeled. It will make more sense once you learn to read patches.
Open [dyn-abs-test] and create a new object, name it dyn-abs $0
and then open the abstraction by control clicking on it or right clicking and selecting open, you will see that the message is now there, it was dynamically created by dyn-abs-test.pd. On creation the abstraction sends its unique canvas name as set by [namecanvas] to $1register, $1 being the $0 of the patch which the abstraction is in since $0 is the first argument passed to the abstraction. That name goes to the right inlet of the [send] in dyn-abs-test.pd so we can send the message [msg 10 10 hello abstraction( to the canvas of the most recent instance of [dyn-abs] which creates the massage in the abstraction. Normally you would store each abstraction's unique canvas name in something like a [text] or [list store] so you can retrieve the proper canvas name for the instance of the abstraction you desire to alter. Or you could send to pd-dyn-abs and alter all copies of the abstraction at once as David mentioned, this can get very messy very quickly if you are also altering them each individually. Best path depends on what you are trying to do.
iemguts is a library of externals which makes most everything regarding dynamic patching easier, it can be installed with deken by going to the help menu and clicking on "find externals."
Believe the rest was answered more or less? I did start on a dynamic patching tutorial a few days ago but no idea when it will be done, made a good amount of progress so far but need to do all the text. Kind of fun to do, the tutorial itself is dynamically patched.
instance specific dynamic patching documentation assistance
@Muology You can get more info on dynamic patching here........ https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/10813/collection-of-pd-internal-messages-dynamic-patching/4 and in that thread.
To replace just one object in an abstraction is complicated.... you have to find it and cut it..... using [find( [findagain( and [cut( messages........ then put your new object...... and then connect it.
To connect it you need to know it's object number (it's place in the order of creation of objects in the patch... starting at 0) .... and the object numbers of the objects you want to connect it to.
That is not really worth the bother.
As @oid says.... it is easier to clear the contents and use a message to replace everything you can do that in any canvas)..... but...
It is easier still to replace the abstraction with another..... but then you still have to reconnect it within your master patch...... so...
Replace the whole abstraction.... and use [send] [send~] etc. rather than [outlet] [outlet~] etc. so that you don't have to reconnect.
You don't need to use [namecanvas].... you can send messages to patches and sub-patches and arrays by their current name. $0 is an automatically assigned value greater than 1000 assigned to every canvas as it is opened (created). You can get its value by.......
[loadbang]
|
[$0]
|
[numberbox]
...... as it could well change when you reopen the patch (if for example you have opened another patch first).
So it can be used but it is better to actually give fixed arguments to your abstractions using $1 $2 etc using a counter as you create them.
My opening post here....... https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/9774/pure-data-noob contains a dynamic patch builder....... build_voices.pd .... which will help you to see how it can be done...... although I didn't show how to remove the objects you will be able to calculate their object numbers and cut them.
Further down that thread I attempted to thoroughly explain $0 $1 $2 etc...... "show me dollars".
For your particular purpose...... this.zip
A simple example, that you can build on once you learn a bit more.
Happy dynamic patching....
David.
instance specific dynamic patching documentation assistance
@Muology Generally it is better to stick a subpatch in the abstraction and do your dynamic patching in there so you can exploit the [clear( msg, method is about the same, don't need to keep track of object numbers as closely but sometimes it is the only way. iemguts is worth exploring if you are getting into dynamic patching.
dyn-abs.pd
dyn-abs-test.pd
Edit: Forgot the patch message question. PD messages send interface commands like save or open, patch messages are the dynamic patching messages, these are better found from opening patch files in a text editor or you can use my look abstraction, with it you can get you exact messages needed for any give dynamic patching, just patch together what you want to dynamically create in an empty patch or subpatch, create the [look] abstraction then select everything but it and control click the bang, your messages and their connects will print to the log for you to copy. It is important that [look] is created last other wise it will screw up your connect messages but it does number the objects for you so not difficult to adjust them as needed so you can even skip using an empty patch/subpatch without much fuss.
instance specific dynamic patching documentation assistance
@whale-av @ben.wes @ddw_music
I am learning about dynamic patching. The documentation describes instance specific dynamic patching as being able to send messages to a specific instance of an abstraction, by renaming the abstraction using namecanvas. The renaming can be automated using $0 expansion.
I am not familiar with where to locate namecanvas and how to use it and I am not familiar with how to use $0 expansion. Can someone please show a complete visual example of how to use instance specific dynamic patching using the exact instructions given in the documentation link?
https://puredata.info/docs/tutorials/TipsAndTricks#instance-specific-dynamic-patching
And can someone show a visual example of how to use dynamic patching to dynamically create instances of an object in an abstraction? For example, if I create a patch with a sine oscillator that can be assigned a frequency, an amplitude, and has a dac object and then make that patch an abstraction how would I be able to use dynamic patching to allow my gui to let me assign a new sound source in place of the sine oscillator? Objects like the switch object have limitations. I would want to be able to assign/unassign any number of new sounds sources in place of the sine oscillator. For example a phasor object, a noise object, or even synthesizer patch abstraction. Suggestions for other ways to do this are good and I also want to be sure to have explanations for using dynamic patching since that is what I am learning. How could this be done using dynamic patching?
General Dynamic Patching
What is the difference between pd messages and patch messages? Are they both used for dynamic patching? And how are they different from instance specific dynamic patching?
https://puredata.info/docs/tutorials/TipsAndTricks#pd-messages
https://puredata.info/docs/tutorials/TipsAndTricks#patch-messages
COMPUTATIONAL INTENSITY OF PD
@4poksy 64 samples cannot be modified for links between patches and sub-patches.... [inlet~] etc. ...nor for final input and output.... [dac~] etc.
It can be modified within a patch or sub patch using [block~].
Patches are very small on disk and in memory..... your os will tell you the size.... they just contain text.
The biggest patch (hundreds of patches running together) that I have ever built uses less than 100K on disk. The objects you call are loaded to and run within the Pd binary as you open the patch.
Pd itself uses about 8.5K of ram with no patches open, and the gui program "wish" just over 15K (in windows 7).
When that massive 100K patch is running Pd expands to use 76K of ram and wish reduces its space to use 12K.
Arrays are the size you choose, and can be large if you are storing audio..
Pd can (sort of) report its cpu load....... dsp~.zip
For more on what actually happens "under the hood"..... http://puredata.info/docs/manuals/pd/x2.htm
.... but that document is also in your Pd installation in the "doc" folder........ /doc/1.manual/x2.htm
Pd builds a "super-patch" from all the patches you open, and the audio thread is rebuilt as you change or add objects and patches. That means that it is always running, but there is no buffer between patches unless you make a mistake..... see the doc above...
You can also use [block~] or [switch~] to turn off audio processing within individual patches and sub-patches...... useful for saving cpu load when switching between effects.
Welcome to the forum...!!
David.
P.S I am usually wrong about something and others will tell you where.
ofelia on raspberry pi?
Hi,
I am trying to get ofelia to run on a couple of rpi. Right now I am trying a rpi 3B+ running https://blokas.io/patchbox-os/
I run ofeila with the ofelia-fast-prototyping abs on my mac successfully.
Following install instructions here https://github.com/cuinjune/Ofelia
after running
sudo ./install_dependencies.sh
it ends like this:
detected Raspberry Pi
installing gstreamer omx
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
gstreamer1.0-omx is already the newest version (1.0.0.1-0+rpi12+jessiepmg).
The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
raspinfo
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove it.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Updating ofxOpenCV to use openCV4
sed: can't read /home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/addons/ofxOpenCv/addon_config.mk: No such file or directory
sed: can't read /home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/addons/ofxOpenCv/addon_config.mk: No such file or directory
When running the example patches in Pd I get this in PD console:
opened alsa MIDI client 130 in:1 out:1
JACK: cannot connect input ports system:midi_capture_1 -> pure_data:input_2
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia d $0-of
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia d $0-of
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia d $0-of
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia d $0-of
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia d $0-of
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia f ;
ofBackground(20) ;
ofSetSmoothLighting(true) ;
ofSetSphereResolution(24) ;
local width , height = ofGetWidth() * 0.12 , ofGetHeight() * 0.12 ;
sphere = ofSpherePrimitive() ;
sphere:setRadius(width) ;
icoSphere = ofIcoSpherePrimitive() ;
icoSphere:setRadius(width) ;
plane = ofPlanePrimitive() ;
plane:set(width * 1.5 , height * 1.5) ;
cylinder = ofCylinderPrimitive() ;
cylinder:set(width * 0.7 , height * 2.2) ;
cone = ofConePrimitive() ;
cone:set(width * 0.75 , height * 2.2) ;
box = ofBoxPrimitive() ;
box:set(width * 1.25) ;
local screenWidth , screenHeight = ofGetWidth() , ofGetHeight() ;
plane:setPosition(screenWidth * 0.2 , screenHeight * 0.25 , 0) ;
box:setPosition(screenWidth * 0.5 , screenHeight * 0.25 , 0) ;
sphere:setPosition(screenWidth * 0.8 , screenHeight * 0.25 , 0) ;
icoSphere:setPosition(screenWidth * 0.2 , screenHeight * 0.75 , 0) ;
cylinder:setPosition(screenWidth * 0.5 , screenHeight * 0.75 , 0) ;
cone:setPosition(screenWidth * 0.8 , screenHeight * 0.75 , 0) ;
pointLight = ofLight() ;
pointLight:setPointLight() ;
pointLight:setDiffuseColor(ofFloatColor(0.85 , 0.85 , 0.55)) ;
pointLight:setSpecularColor(ofFloatColor(1 , 1 , 1)) ;
pointLight2 = ofLight() ;
pointLight2:setPointLight() ;
pointLight2:setDiffuseColor(ofFloatColor(238 / 255 , 57 / 255 , 135 / 255)) ;
pointLight2:setSpecularColor(ofFloatColor(0.8 , 0.8 , 0.9)) ;
pointLight3 = ofLight() ;
pointLight3:setPointLight() ;
pointLight3:setDiffuseColor(ofFloatColor(19 / 255 , 94 / 255 , 77 / 255)) ;
pointLight3:setSpecularColor(ofFloatColor(18 / 255 , 150 / 255 , 135 / 255)) ;
material = ofMaterial() ;
material:setShininess(120) ;
material:setSpecularColor(ofFloatColor(1 , 1 , 1)) ;
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia f ;
pointLight = nil ;
pointLight2 = nil ;
pointLight3 = nil ;
collectgarbage() ;
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia f ;
local width , height , time = ofGetWidth() , ofGetHeight() , ofGetElapsedTimef() ;
pointLight:setPosition((width * 0.5) + math.cos(time * 0.5) * (width * 0.3) , height / 2 , 500) ;
pointLight2:setPosition((width * 0.5) + math.cos(time * 0.15) * (width * 0.3) , height * 0.5 + math.sin(time * 0.7) * height , -300) ;
pointLight3:setPosition(math.cos(time * 1.5) * width * 0.5 , math.sin(time * 1.5) * width * 0.5 , math.cos(time * 0.2) * width) ;
... couldn't create
/home/patch/Documents/Pd/externals/ofelia/ofelia.l_arm: libboost_filesystem.so.1.67.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ofelia f ;
local spinX = math.sin(ofGetElapsedTimef() * 0.35) ;
local spinY = math.cos(ofGetElapsedTimef() * 0.075) ;
ofEnableDepthTest() ;
ofEnableLighting() ;
pointLight:enable() ;
pointLight2:enable() ;
pointLight3:enable() ;
material:beginMaterial() ;
plane:rotateDeg(spinX , 1 , 0 , 0) ;
plane:rotateDeg(spinY , 0 , 1 , 0) ;
plane:draw() ;
box:rotateDeg(spinX , 1 , 0 , 0) ;
box:rotateDeg(spinY , 0 , 1 , 0) ;
box:draw() ;
sphere:rotateDeg(spinX , 1 , 0 , 0) ;
sphere:rotateDeg(spinY , 0 , 1 , 0) ;
sphere:draw() ;
icoSphere:rotateDeg(spinX , 1 , 0 , 0) ;
icoSphere:rotateDeg(spinY , 0 , 1 , 0) ;
icoSphere:draw() ;
cylinder:rotateDeg(spinX , 1 , 0 , 0) ;
cylinder:rotateDeg(spinY , 0 , 1 , 0) ;
cylinder:draw() ;
cone:rotateDeg(spinX , 1 , 0 , 0) ;
cone:rotateDeg(spinY , 0 , 1 , 0) ;
cone:draw() ;
material:endMaterial() ;
ofDisableLighting() ;
ofDisableDepthTest() ;
... couldn't create
Thankful for help!
espd - tutorial
Hi all!
I had some time during vacations and I wanted to try running Miller's espd version. Here's a small tutorial.
The development board I bought: ESP32-LyraT > Mouser | Aliexpress
INSTALL ESP-IDF (IoT development framework)
mkdir ~/esp && cd ~/esp
git clone -b v4.4.2 --recursive https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf.git
cd esp-idf
./install.sh esp32
INSTALL ESP-ADF (audio development kit)
cd ~/esp && git clone --recursive https://github.com/espressif/esp-adf.git
SETUP ENV VAR
export ADF_PATH=~/esp/esp-adf && . ~/esp/esp-idf/export.sh
ESPD
download espd: http://msp.ucsd.edu/ideas/espd/
cd espd
git clone https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data.git pd
cd pd
git checkout 05bf346fa32510fd191fe77de24b3ea1c481f5ff
git apply ../patches/*.patch
Edit main/espd.h put your wifi credentials and the IP of the computer that will control espd:
#define CONFIG_ESP_WIFI_SSID "..."
#define CONFIG_ESP_WIFI_PASSWORD "..."
#define CONFIG_ESP_WIFI_SENDADDR "...."
mv sdkconfig.lyrat sdkconfig
idf.py build
idf.py -p /dev/ttyUSB0 flash (hold boot and then press reset on lyrat)
idf.py -p /dev/ttyUSB0 monitor (Ctrl+] to exit)
HOST
- open pd installed on (SENDADDR)
- open test-patch/host-patch.pd
If connected this message (ESPD: sendtcp: waiting for socket) will stop and you will see the mac address in the host patch.
1- click on [send pf begin-new poodle .<
2- click on [line 0, auto< to send the defined patch (esp-patch.pd)
3 - click [send pd end-new<
4 - connect headphone, play with [send f 440< and [send f 660<
Custom patch:
- Use mono [dac~ 1] only
- Add this to your patch:
- in host-patch.pd change [read your-patch< -> [text define patch] redo step 1 to 3
TODO
Would love to play more with the code, right now I am not able to load complex vanilla patch. Also using the AUX (or built-in microphone) would be awesome (but I'm wondering about the round-trip latency (would it be under 15ms)).
Controlling Pd from another programme
@Worik Not sure what you are looking for.....
If you want to open a patch from the command line you can open Pd and a patch with a batch file...... in windows it would look something like this....
"C:\Program Files (x86)\pd\bin\pd.com" -path C:\Users\David\Desktop\PDMusic\Minx -path C:\Program_Files_(x86)\pd\extra\readanysf~\ -r 44100 -asio -nomidi -audioindev 20 -audiooutdev 15 -inchannels 32 -outchannels 22 -audiobuf 2 -blocksize 64 -callback -nosleep -open Minx_Run.pd
exit`
which on my system opens Minx_run.Pd and tells Pd where to find it........ \PdMusic\Minx
It also sets a load of command line switches...... to set up audio for this very specific instance (useful!).
There will be similar methods in other os's.
When you want to close the patch (and Pd) you kill the Dos window that the batch file created.
Messages can be sent to Pd to close a specific patch..... but another patch will have to be open (probably the one receiving the message) or Pd will terminate.
It can be done from within the patch but its complicated........ https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/11710/closing-patches-without-pd-crashing-hopefully-in-an-elegant-way ...... and not easy.
If you want to keep Pd open and control from another program........ then as @seb-harmonik.ar describes........ but the menuclose message might crash Pd if another patch (any patch) is not open........ https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/4063/close-patch-window-command-object
Anyway, it is cleaner to use a second patch to receive your messages and close the desired patch.
David.
Can't install purr-data on Manjaro
Hey, I'm trying to get purr-data to work on my fresh Manjaro XFCE install, but it does not work. Any help is greatly appreciated!
$ yay purr-data
7 aur/purrdata-faust 0.18-1 (+0 0.00)
Run Faust signal processors in Pd, Purr-Data version
6 aur/purrdata-pure 0.26-1 (+0 0.00)
Loader plugin for the Pure programming language, Purr-Data version
5 aur/purrdata-lv2plugin-git 25.e00f302-1 (+0 0.00)
LV2 plugin host for Pd, Purr-Data version
4 aur/purrdata-mdnsbrowser-git 8.88d2b0c-1 (+0 0.00)
Zeroconf service advertising and discovery for Pd, Purr-Data version
3 aur/purrdata-touchosc-git 44.443c793-1 (+0 0.00)
A TouchOSC MIDI bridge for Pd, Purr-Data version
2 aur/purr-data-git 2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1 (+2 0.00)
Jonathan Wilkes' nw.js variant of Pd-L2Ork (git version)
1 aur/purr-data 2.12.0.r4346.aeb24d89-1 (+6 0.03) (Out-of-date: 2021-06-17)
Jonathan Wilkes' nw.js variant of Pd-L2Ork (git version)
==> Packages to install (eg: 1 2 3, 1-3 or ^4)
==> 2
:: There are 2 providers available for gconf:
:: Repository AUR
1) gconf 2) gconf-gtk2
Enter a number (default=1): ==>
:: Checking for conflicts...
:: Checking for inner conflicts...
[Aur:2] gconf-3.2.6+11+g07808097-10 purr-data-git-2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1
2 gconf (Build Files Exist)
1 purr-data-git
==> Packages to cleanBuild?
==> [N]one [A]ll [Ab]ort [I]nstalled [No]tInstalled or (1 2 3, 1-3, ^4)
==> a
:: Deleting (1/1): /home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf
:: (1/2) Downloaded PKGBUILD: gconf
:: (2/2) Downloaded PKGBUILD: purr-data-git
2 gconf (Build Files Exist)
1 purr-data-git (Build Files Exist)
==> Diffs to show?
==> [N]one [A]ll [Ab]ort [I]nstalled [No]tInstalled or (1 2 3, 1-3, ^4)
==>
:: (1/2) Parsing SRCINFO: gconf
:: (2/2) Parsing SRCINFO: purr-data-git
==> Making package: gconf 3.2.6+11+g07808097-10 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:23:23 PM CET)
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Cloning gconf git repo...
Cloning into bare repository '/home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf/gconf'...
==> Making package: purr-data-git 2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:23:23 PM CET)
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Cloning purr-data-git git repo...
Cloning into bare repository '/home/olav/.cache/yay/purr-data-git/purr-data-git'...
remote: Enumerating objects: 21531, done.
remote: Enumerating objects: 63399, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (1852/1852), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (641/641), done.
remote: Total 21531 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 21531
Receiving objects: 100% (21531/21531), 10.88 MiB | 9.46 MiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (17681/17681), done.1 KiB | 704.00 KiB/s
-> Found 01_xml-gettext-domain.patch388.01 KiB | 704.00 KiB/s
-> Found gconf-reload.patch
-> Found gconf-merge-schema
-> Found gconfpkg
-> Found gconf-install.hook
-> Found gconf-remove.hook
==> Validating source files with sha256sums...
gconf ... Skipped
01_xml-gettext-domain.patch ... Passed
gconf-reload.patch ... Passed
gconf-merge-schema ... Passed
gconfpkg ... Passed
gconf-install.hook ... Passed
gconf-remove.hook ... Passed
remote: Total 63399 (delta 1106), reused 1786 (delta 1052), pack-reused 61547
Receiving objects: 100% (63399/63399), 177.19 MiB | 5.71 MiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (33721/33721), done.
-> Downloading nwjs-sdk-v0.24.4-linux-x64.tar.gz...
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 86.7M 100 86.7M 0 0 3966k 0 0:00:22 0:00:22 --:--:-- 8404k
==> Validating source files with md5sums...
purr-data-git ... Skipped
==> Validating source_x86_64 files with md5sums...
nwjs-sdk-v0.24.4-linux-x64.tar.gz ... Passed
==> Making package: gconf 3.2.6+11+g07808097-10 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:24:19 PM CET)
==> Checking runtime dependencies...
==> Checking buildtime dependencies...
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Updating gconf git repo...
Fetching origin
-> Found 01_xml-gettext-domain.patch
-> Found gconf-reload.patch
-> Found gconf-merge-schema
-> Found gconfpkg
-> Found gconf-install.hook
-> Found gconf-remove.hook
==> Validating source files with sha256sums...
gconf ... Skipped
01_xml-gettext-domain.patch ... Passed
gconf-reload.patch ... Passed
gconf-merge-schema ... Passed
gconfpkg ... Passed
gconf-install.hook ... Passed
gconf-remove.hook ... Passed
==> Removing existing $srcdir/ directory...
==> Extracting sources...
-> Creating working copy of gconf git repo...
Cloning into 'gconf'...
done.
Switched to a new branch 'makepkg'
==> Starting prepare()...
/home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf/PKGBUILD: line 30: patch: command not found
==> ERROR: A failure occurred in prepare().
Aborting...
-> error making: gconf
And
yay purr-data
7 aur/purrdata-faust 0.18-1 (+0 0.00)
Run Faust signal processors in Pd, Purr-Data version
6 aur/purrdata-pure 0.26-1 (+0 0.00)
Loader plugin for the Pure programming language, Purr-Data version
5 aur/purrdata-lv2plugin-git 25.e00f302-1 (+0 0.00)
LV2 plugin host for Pd, Purr-Data version
4 aur/purrdata-mdnsbrowser-git 8.88d2b0c-1 (+0 0.00)
Zeroconf service advertising and discovery for Pd, Purr-Data version
3 aur/purrdata-touchosc-git 44.443c793-1 (+0 0.00)
A TouchOSC MIDI bridge for Pd, Purr-Data version
2 aur/purr-data-git 2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1 (+2 0.00)
Jonathan Wilkes' nw.js variant of Pd-L2Ork (git version)
1 aur/purr-data 2.12.0.r4346.aeb24d89-1 (+6 0.03) (Out-of-date: 2021-06-17)
Jonathan Wilkes' nw.js variant of Pd-L2Ork (git version)
==> Packages to install (eg: 1 2 3, 1-3 or ^4)
==> 2
:: There are 2 providers available for gconf:
:: Repository AUR
1) gconf 2) gconf-gtk2
Enter a number (default=1): ==>
:: Checking for conflicts...
:: Checking for inner conflicts...
[Aur:2] gconf-3.2.6+11+g07808097-10 purr-data-git-2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1
2 gconf (Build Files Exist)
1 purr-data-git
==> Packages to cleanBuild?
==> [N]one [A]ll [Ab]ort [I]nstalled [No]tInstalled or (1 2 3, 1-3, ^4)
==> a
:: Deleting (1/1): /home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf
:: (1/2) Downloaded PKGBUILD: gconf
:: (2/2) Downloaded PKGBUILD: purr-data-git
2 gconf (Build Files Exist)
1 purr-data-git (Build Files Exist)
==> Diffs to show?
==> [N]one [A]ll [Ab]ort [I]nstalled [No]tInstalled or (1 2 3, 1-3, ^4)
==>
:: (1/2) Parsing SRCINFO: gconf
:: (2/2) Parsing SRCINFO: purr-data-git
==> Making package: gconf 3.2.6+11+g07808097-10 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:23:23 PM CET)
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Cloning gconf git repo...
Cloning into bare repository '/home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf/gconf'...
==> Making package: purr-data-git 2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:23:23 PM CET)
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Cloning purr-data-git git repo...
Cloning into bare repository '/home/olav/.cache/yay/purr-data-git/purr-data-git'...
remote: Enumerating objects: 21531, done.
remote: Enumerating objects: 63399, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (1852/1852), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (641/641), done.
remote: Total 21531 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 21531
Receiving objects: 100% (21531/21531), 10.88 MiB | 9.46 MiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (17681/17681), done.1 KiB | 704.00 KiB/s
-> Found 01_xml-gettext-domain.patch388.01 KiB | 704.00 KiB/s
-> Found gconf-reload.patch
-> Found gconf-merge-schema
-> Found gconfpkg
-> Found gconf-install.hook
-> Found gconf-remove.hook
==> Validating source files with sha256sums...
gconf ... Skipped
01_xml-gettext-domain.patch ... Passed
gconf-reload.patch ... Passed
gconf-merge-schema ... Passed
gconfpkg ... Passed
gconf-install.hook ... Passed
gconf-remove.hook ... Passed
remote: Total 63399 (delta 1106), reused 1786 (delta 1052), pack-reused 61547
Receiving objects: 100% (63399/63399), 177.19 MiB | 5.71 MiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (33721/33721), done.
-> Downloading nwjs-sdk-v0.24.4-linux-x64.tar.gz...
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 86.7M 100 86.7M 0 0 3966k 0 0:00:22 0:00:22 --:--:-- 8404k
==> Validating source files with md5sums...
purr-data-git ... Skipped
==> Validating source_x86_64 files with md5sums...
nwjs-sdk-v0.24.4-linux-x64.tar.gz ... Passed
==> Making package: gconf 3.2.6+11+g07808097-10 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:24:19 PM CET)
==> Checking runtime dependencies...
==> Checking buildtime dependencies...
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Updating gconf git repo...
Fetching origin
-> Found 01_xml-gettext-domain.patch
-> Found gconf-reload.patch
-> Found gconf-merge-schema
-> Found gconfpkg
-> Found gconf-install.hook
-> Found gconf-remove.hook
==> Validating source files with sha256sums...
gconf ... Skipped
01_xml-gettext-domain.patch ... Passed
gconf-reload.patch ... Passed
gconf-merge-schema ... Passed
gconfpkg ... Passed
gconf-install.hook ... Passed
gconf-remove.hook ... Passed
==> Removing existing $srcdir/ directory...
==> Extracting sources...
-> Creating working copy of gconf git repo...
Cloning into 'gconf'...
done.
Switched to a new branch 'makepkg'
==> Starting prepare()...
/home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf/PKGBUILD: line 30: patch: command not found
==> ERROR: A failure occurred in prepare().
Aborting...
-> error making: gconf
[olav@AMD-Computer ~]$ yay purr-data
7 aur/purrdata-faust 0.18-1 (+0 0.00)
Run Faust signal processors in Pd, Purr-Data version
6 aur/purrdata-pure 0.26-1 (+0 0.00)
Loader plugin for the Pure programming language, Purr-Data version
5 aur/purrdata-lv2plugin-git 25.e00f302-1 (+0 0.00)
LV2 plugin host for Pd, Purr-Data version
4 aur/purrdata-mdnsbrowser-git 8.88d2b0c-1 (+0 0.00)
Zeroconf service advertising and discovery for Pd, Purr-Data version
3 aur/purrdata-touchosc-git 44.443c793-1 (+0 0.00)
A TouchOSC MIDI bridge for Pd, Purr-Data version
2 aur/purr-data-git 2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1 (+2 0.00)
Jonathan Wilkes' nw.js variant of Pd-L2Ork (git version)
1 aur/purr-data 2.12.0.r4346.aeb24d89-1 (+6 0.03) (Out-of-date: 2021-06-17)
Jonathan Wilkes' nw.js variant of Pd-L2Ork (git version)
==> Packages to install (eg: 1 2 3, 1-3 or ^4)
==> 2
:: There are 2 providers available for gconf:
:: Repository AUR
1) gconf 2) gconf-gtk2
Enter a number (default=1): ==> 2
:: Checking for conflicts...
:: Checking for inner conflicts...
[Aur:2] gconf-gtk2-3.2.6-5 purr-data-git-2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1
2 gconf-gtk2 (Build Files Exist)
1 purr-data-git (Build Files Exist)
==> Packages to cleanBuild?
==> [N]one [A]ll [Ab]ort [I]nstalled [No]tInstalled or (1 2 3, 1-3, ^4)
==> a
:: Deleting (1/2): /home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf-gtk2
:: Deleting (2/2): /home/olav/.cache/yay/purr-data-git
:: (1/2) Downloaded PKGBUILD: purr-data-git
:: (2/2) Downloaded PKGBUILD: gconf-gtk2
2 gconf-gtk2 (Build Files Exist)
1 purr-data-git (Build Files Exist)
==> Diffs to show?
==> [N]one [A]ll [Ab]ort [I]nstalled [No]tInstalled or (1 2 3, 1-3, ^4)
==>
:: (1/2) Parsing SRCINFO: gconf-gtk2
:: (2/2) Parsing SRCINFO: purr-data-git
==> Making package: purr-data-git 2.12.0.r4366.6d94e10b-1 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:40:58 PM CET)
==> Retrieving sources...
==> Making package: gconf-gtk2 3.2.6-5 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:40:58 PM CET)
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Cloning purr-data-git git repo...
Cloning into bare repository '/home/olav/.cache/yay/purr-data-git/purr-data-git'...
-> Downloading GConf-3.2.6.tar.xz...
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 0
100 1523k 100 1523k 0 0 1610k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 1610k
-> Found gconf-merge-schema
-> Found gconfpkg
-> Found gconf-reload.patch
-> Found gconf-install.hook
-> Found gconf-remove.hook
-> Found 01_xml-gettext-domain.patch
-> Found dbus-dontspew.patch
-> Found gsettings-data-convert-fix-invalid-schema-path.patch
==> Validating source files with sha256sums...
GConf-3.2.6.tar.xz ... Passed
gconf-merge-schema ... Passed
gconfpkg ... Passed
gconf-reload.patch ... Passed
gconf-install.hook ... Passed
gconf-remove.hook ... Passed
01_xml-gettext-domain.patch ... Passed
dbus-dontspew.patch ... Passed
gsettings-data-convert-fix-invalid-schema-path.patch ... Passed
remote: Enumerating objects: 63399, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (1852/1852), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (641/641), done.
remote: Total 63399 (delta 1106), reused 1786 (delta 1052), pack-reused 61547
Receiving objects: 100% (63399/63399), 177.19 MiB | 9.76 MiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (33721/33721), done.
-> Downloading nwjs-sdk-v0.24.4-linux-x64.tar.gz...
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 86.7M 100 86.7M 0 0 11.7M 0 0:00:07 0:00:07 --:--:-- 14.4M
==> Validating source files with md5sums...
purr-data-git ... Skipped
==> Validating source_x86_64 files with md5sums...
nwjs-sdk-v0.24.4-linux-x64.tar.gz ... Passed
==> Making package: gconf-gtk2 3.2.6-5 (Wed 09 Feb 2022 10:41:26 PM CET)
==> Checking runtime dependencies...
==> Checking buildtime dependencies...
==> Retrieving sources...
-> Found GConf-3.2.6.tar.xz
-> Found gconf-merge-schema
-> Found gconfpkg
-> Found gconf-reload.patch
-> Found gconf-install.hook
-> Found gconf-remove.hook
-> Found 01_xml-gettext-domain.patch
-> Found dbus-dontspew.patch
-> Found gsettings-data-convert-fix-invalid-schema-path.patch
==> Validating source files with sha256sums...
GConf-3.2.6.tar.xz ... Passed
gconf-merge-schema ... Passed
gconfpkg ... Passed
gconf-reload.patch ... Passed
gconf-install.hook ... Passed
gconf-remove.hook ... Passed
01_xml-gettext-domain.patch ... Passed
dbus-dontspew.patch ... Passed
gsettings-data-convert-fix-invalid-schema-path.patch ... Passed
==> Removing existing $srcdir/ directory...
==> Extracting sources...
-> Extracting GConf-3.2.6.tar.xz with bsdtar
==> Starting prepare()...
/home/olav/.cache/yay/gconf-gtk2/PKGBUILD: line 39: patch: command not found
==> ERROR: A failure occurred in prepare().
Aborting...
-> error making: gconf-gtk2
Why does Pd look so much worse on linux/windows than in macOS?
@ddw_music said:
I still think Tcl/Tk has failed to keep up with modern standards, and I have my doubts that it will ever catch up. So, I still think that Pd hampers its own progress by hitching itself to the Tcl/Tk wagon.
I think most people agree with you, myself included. Tk is clunky but it's in the current code base and has been kept so far since it works, although admittedly barely in many cases.
The last couple of posts here are encouraging.
I know development is slow, but it's really working against inertia. Momentum has been growing the last years and that's mostly due to more effective collaboration to tackle some of these issues. I think finding a sustainable approach to the GUI is one of the largest ones, so is taking a while to grow.
IMO a fair comparison is: normal screen size in Linux vs normal screen size in Mac.
Nope. See above.
Developer vs user perspective. The user sees clean diagonals on Mac, and jagged diagonals on Linux or Windows, and I think it's perfectly legitimate for the user not really to care that it's the OS rather than the drawing engine that makes it so in Mac. (It's correct, of course, to point out that the diagonals on a retina display will look smoother than antialiased diagonals without retina.)
Yup, you are totally right. I didn't mean to imply the Linux screenshot looked good since "that's the way it is" just more that it looks so much better on macOS since the screenshot is likely double the resolution as well.
I started using Pd on Windows circa 2006 then jumped to Linux for many years, then to macOS. My feeling was that Pd worked best on Linux but a lot of that has caught up as the underlying systems have developed but in some ways the Linux desktop has not (for many reasons, good and bad).
- Your point (c) already happened... you can use Purr Data (or the new Pd-L2ork etc). The GUI is implemented in Node/Electron/JS (I'm not sure of the details). Is it tracking Pd vanilla releases?... well that's a different issue.
I did try Purr Data, but abandoned it because (at the time, two years ago), Purr Data on Mac didn't support Gem and there were no concrete plans to address that. This might have changed in the last couple of years (has it? -- I've looked at https://agraef.github.io/purr-data/ and https://github.com/agraef/purr-data but it seems not quite straightforward to determine whether Gem+Mac has been added or not).
That's a result of many of the forks adopting the "kitchen sink" monolithic distribution model inherited from Pd-extended. The user gets the environment and many external libraries all together in one download, but the developers have to integrate changes from upstream themselves and build for the various platforms. It's less overheard for the user but more for the developers, which is why integrating a frankly large and complicated external like GEM is harder.
I'm happy to download the deken GEM package because I know the IEM people have done all the craziness to build it (it's a small nightmare of autotools/makefiles due to the amount of plugins and configuration options). I am also very happy to not have to build it and provide it to other users but in exchange we ask people to do that extra step and use deken. I recognize that the whole usage of [declare] is still not as easy or straightforward for many beginners. There are some thoughts of improving it and feedback for people in the teaching environment has also pushed certain solutions (ie. Pd Documents folder, etc).
Tracking vanilla releases was the other issue. A couple of years ago, [soundfiler] in Purr Data was older and didn't provide the full set of sound file stats. That issue had been logged and I'm sure it's been updated since then. "Tracking" seemed to be manual, case-by-case.
By "tracking" I am referring to a fork following the new developments in Pd-vanilla and integrating the changes. This becomes harder if/when the forks deviate with internal changes to the source code, so merging some changes then has to be done "by hand" which slows things down and is one reason why a fork may release a new version but be perhaps 1 or two versions behind Pd vanilla's internal objects, ie. new [soundfiler] right outlet, [clone] object, new [file] object, etc.
- As for updating Tk, it's probably not likely to happen as advanced graphics are not their focus. I could be wrong about this.
I agree that updating the GUI itself is the better solution for the long run. I also agree that it's a big undertaking when the current implementation is essentially still working fine after over 20 years...
Well, I mean, OK up to a point. There are things like the Tcl/Tk open/save file dialog, which is truly abhorrent in Linux.
Hah yeah, I totally understand. My first contribution to Pd(-extended) was to find out how to disable showing hidden files in the open/save panels on Linux. You would open a dialog, it defaulted to $HOME
, then you had to wade through 100 dot folders. Terrible! Who did this and why? Well it wasn't on purpose, it was just the default setting for panels on Tk, and I added a little but of Tcl to turn it off and show a "Show hidden files/folders" button below.
OTOH I have a colleague at work who's internal toolkit still uses Motif. Why? Well it still works and he's the only user so he's ok with it. I'd say that Tk also still uses Motif... but there are many users and they have much different expectations. ;P
Some puzzling decisions here and there -- for example, when you use the mouse to drag an object to another location, why does it then switch to edit the text in the object box? To me, this is a disruptive workflow -- you're moving an object, not editing the object, but suddenly (without warning) you're forcibly switched into editing the object, and it takes a clumsy action of clicking outside the object and dragging the mouse into the object to get back to positioning mode. I feel so strongly about it that I even put in a PR to change that behavior (https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/922), which has been open for a year and a half without being either merged or rejected (only argued against initially, and then stalled).
Ah yes, I forgot about this one. It wasn't rejected, just came at a time when there were lots of other things shouting much louder, ie. if this isn't fixed Pd is broken on $PLATFORM. I would say that, personally, your initial posting style turned me off but I recognize where the frustration came from. I also appreciate making the point AND providing a solution, so the ball is in our court for sure. I will take a look at this soon and try it out.
"Still working for 20 years" but you could also say, still clunky for 20 years, with inertia when somebody does actually try to fix something.
Another approach would be to try to bring improvements to Tcl/Tk itself but the dev community is a little opaque, more so than Pd. However I admit to not having put a ton of time into it, other than flagging our custom patches to the TK macOS guy on Github.
WRT to the rest, any architectural improvements (e.g. drawing abstractions so that the Pd core isn't so tightly coupled to Tcl/Tk) that make it more feasible to move forward are great, would love to see it.
As would I... we are preparing for a major exhibition opening in December, but I will have some time off after and I may take a stab at a technical demo for this (among other things) then pull in some other perspectives / testers. It has been an itch I have wanted to scratch since, at least Pd Con 2016 in NYC.